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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 4:47 am 
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Shortbus

Joined: Mon 26 Mar, 2012 3:33 am
Posts: 9
Palandus wrote:
Why'd ya want to do that?


Um, because I was having fun then. I'm not having fun now.

I'm grinding, goon farming, blueprint farming. And I don't hear anyone bothering with the arena. No, the community at large would rather spend 30 minutes trying to beat a BH fleet than play the silly arena and placate them...

ETA: I just failed an escort mission in a level 18 system. I'm level 47. No zombies, just outer rim escort mission. Used to be a piece of cake. It appears that using launchers is useless...so ,yes, I would like to revert to a previous, pre-BH version please!

ETA: ok, fixed the problem with the levels and gates. I found I had the wrong load out. Still seems messed up somehow.


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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 7:38 am 
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Shortbus

Joined: Mon 26 Mar, 2012 3:33 am
Posts: 9
On the subject, I mentioned that no one bothers to placate the BH. I am beginning to see why. There's no way to build up enough reputation to stay on their good side. Does it really make sense to accept a mission that will earn you 150 reputation, but in executing the mission, you have to destroy enemy ships that each cost bounty? Reputation earned: 150. Bounty incurred: 250. Hmmm.

And I can clear that gate by myself thank you very much. No need to jump in and "assist" me, at the cost of 1000 reputation points....


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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 9:59 am 
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Ranger
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Joined: Sun 05 Jun, 2011 6:25 pm
Posts: 332
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You can do Arenas to boost your reputation. Or just attack their station and pull their defenses away from their station and kill them off for reputation and blueprints.


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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 10:03 am 
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Volley
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Joined: Fri 25 Feb, 2011 9:47 pm
Posts: 601
You don't do arenas to placate the BHs. Do them for the massive amounts of easy rez and specialists. It's faster than mining (at least, the first time before the rewards are reduced), and it's worth completing a tier just for the free rare specialist. Consider the bounty hunter rep a bonus.


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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 6:01 pm 
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Scout
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Joined: Sat 31 Dec, 2011 11:10 pm
Posts: 40
I'm having more problem with general balance than the bounty hunters specifically. Honestly, I'd say that they're very well balanced (I've been killed a few times on normal, but the only time I've truly felt the fights weren't fair were when they attack the Clockwork). The doubled hull health along with other balance changes make the game VERY difficult for those of lesser skill such as myself. I was playing just fine on Normal before, I don't want to have to kick the game to easy just to have fun.

Cheated to level 90-something, still getting slaughtered by chapter 3. :(


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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 6:15 pm 
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Scout
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Joined: Fri 07 Oct, 2011 3:12 pm
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Location: England
I just had a mammoth AND a manta-ray jump in when I refused to pay the extortion.
I was blown into pieces so small that the zombies didn't even have to chew.

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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 6:24 pm 
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Scout
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Posts: 40
Yeah, I'm gathering that the extortion fights might need a bit of work... <.<

I think the problem is that the bounty hunters focus fire on the Clockwork, where other ambushers don't seem to.


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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 6:42 pm 
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Hound
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Joined: Thu 15 Sep, 2011 3:54 am
Posts: 1400
To answer some guys above me:
-> You get BH help to clear warpgates on higher difficulties. When I played the game on Insane (pre-BH) doing warpgates was a major pain and I frequently died. If you can bribe BH to help you, you may be able to beat the warpgate. Otherwise theres no point in getting help. On Casual through to Veteran, you don't need BH help to get through warp-gates.
-> I've never seen you get reputation from quests. If you look closely it says 150 bounty for example in red. Meaning you gain 150 bounty IF you complete the quest.
-> I play the arenas myself. They are fun and enjoyable... at least the low-level tierred ones are. The higher up ones are just plain cruel.
-> I never use missiles so can't comment on them except to say they've always been weak and are a little bit more of a menace now.. Not much but a little.
-> Arenas are great for rez and the specialists at the end are quite nice too.


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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 7:23 pm 
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Gyro

Joined: Mon 13 Feb, 2012 10:25 pm
Posts: 136
Quote:
I've never seen you get reputation from quests.

You can get Rep for quests. It's not much, but it's there.
On this point at least I'd suggest: If the quest has a bounty cost or rep reward for completion, destruction of any mission ships during the mission shouldn't cost bounty.


The very short version of this entire thread is that Richard/Blorfy have unfortunately fallen victim to the well-known problem - never test your own game. :-) Because you always find it much easier than regular players.

I'm surprised so many folks are having issues with the BH when they're mostly leaving me alone (despite full bounty for ages now), and when they do attack it's usually quite weak. I think I'm quite lucky, still only the two mothership attacks too, and nearly lvl 70.


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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 8:18 pm 
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Shortbus

Joined: Tue 13 Mar, 2012 12:20 am
Posts: 7
Palandus wrote:
-> I never use missiles so can't comment on them except to say they've always been weak and are a little bit more of a menace now.. Not much but a little.


Except the fact that you can kill stuff from miles away with missiles. And torpedos own everything (they have their downsides, but kill stuff very quickly). I love them.
(Yeah, to each his/her own. :) )


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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 8:41 pm 
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Hatchet

Joined: Sun 04 Mar, 2012 9:22 pm
Posts: 183
Haven't bothered to read alot of this, assuming most of it amounts to opinion pieces.

I think BH content is hard, but not impossible to overcome. I started a new game on normal to play BH content, and they are ROUGH, but for a vet player, they can be dealt with . . . though expect losses as a learning experience.

I took a damn lot of losses, because I try to get all hulls early - the freighter and all large hulls and less by Phase 2, all hulls by Phase 3. To this end, I antagonized the BH's relentlessly, and mounted gate assaults in their influence to lure them out (Where they are more likely to attack because they take your opposition into account when deciding whether they're strong enough to take you.) For that, I avoided respect, sought bounty. I blew up stations and assaulted gates, took missions that earned bounty. And when I gained too many levels to successfully draw them in chapter 2, I started attacking their station to draw their defense fleet.

So yeah, I was not taking the cautious path, but I did not find them overwhelmingly difficult to deal with. My difficulty wasn't through the roof, but I'm not a hardcore player, either. (Strafe CW/CCW still gets me confused sometimes.)


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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 9:28 pm 
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Turtle head
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Posts: 414
asdf wrote:
I'm surprised so many folks are having issues with the BH when they're mostly leaving me alone (despite full bounty for ages now), and when they do attack it's usually quite weak. I think I'm quite lucky, still only the two mothership attacks too, and nearly lvl 70.


The devs have said that attacks are less likely the more you outmatch the BH in tech, so maybe it's a matter of playstyle, with slower-paced folks like you or me likely to see less BHs simply because we often outmatch them. (Just guessing - still need to actually sit down and start my first post-expansion playthrough.)

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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 11:16 pm 
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Shortbus

Joined: Mon 26 Mar, 2012 5:21 pm
Posts: 3
OK, I was finally able to overcome my block (described above), and now I am owning all the zombie ships -- Manta Rays and Mammoths included -- on Normal. I respec'd to get a better reactor and the fortress shield which helped a little, but mostly I think it was my discovery of auto turrets that tipped the scales. With my Mammoth using particle beams and mass drivers, I feel like I'm cheating. I just stay out of range and pick them off. Auto turrets do all the work.

UPDATE: Beat the game! I must say that with the auto turrets, the rest of the game -- even the final missions -- was cake. Even took out two BH bases in Chapter 4 with no problems! I still think the BH ships are not balanced (which works both ways -- when you're using them and when you're fighting them), but my biggest gripe would still have to be the mothership. Even though I was owning zombies right and left, my mothership almost was destroyed several times during timed Zombie assaults. I will definitely recommend this game on Steam now, with a small caveat about the learning/difficulty curve.


Last edited by sohei kuma on Wed 28 Mar, 2012 3:53 am, edited 2 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 11:30 pm 
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Hound
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Joined: Thu 15 Sep, 2011 3:54 am
Posts: 1400
Bounty Hunters are fine. I like the challenge.

I don't like the clockwork or having to defend that piece of junk though. It get enough of that in Chapter 4 against zombies.
If the clockwork was moddable like any ship, then it'd be different, but as it stands its a liability rather than an asset. A liability BHs exploit.


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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 11:39 pm 
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Dart

Joined: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 11:26 pm
Posts: 13
I felt that the difficulty was reasonable, compared to everything else, although I do play only on casual. As long as the BH don't outnumber me more than 3 to 2, I don't have much trouble winning; it's from 2 to 1 and up that I lose almost every time (unless I have loads of rez and I'm willing to use them), but that's usually the case with Civ/UTA too, so it's OK.

As has been said repeatedly in this thread, the only thing really difficult is when they attack your mothership after a ransom. I usually die when the second wave comes in, and I haven't finished with the first one. The reinforcements just get free passage to the clockwork, and then everything is over.

People have complained about the brute too, but I haven't found it excessively difficult. When roughly on par on tech, there's just not much it can do against a right hook (and I only equip it with 2 overload emitters and 1 SRMs, given my spec).

And do the BH sometimes randomly help you in your fights if your respect is high enough? I once got into a mission with hostile civ units, and a Manta Ray with a Brute got in and destroyed nearly everything (the best units the civ had were a couple of big buses equipped with grunt shuttles) by themselves before I got to do much. I was at 4000/5000 respect.


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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Wed 28 Mar, 2012 3:45 pm 
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Scout
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Joined: Sat 31 Dec, 2011 11:10 pm
Posts: 40
Yes, at high respect, the bounty hunters will randomly support you instead of ambush. My first real encounter with them was a brute and a Pelican clearing a UTA blockade for me (without being hired for support).


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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Wed 28 Mar, 2012 4:42 pm 
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Dart

Joined: Tue 27 Mar, 2012 11:26 pm
Posts: 13
It would be nice to know the odds of them helping you. Especially if it could be used to get them to commit suicide against larger odds than they can handle, to get their blueprints.


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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Wed 28 Mar, 2012 5:29 pm 
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Shortbus

Joined: Fri 24 Feb, 2012 1:57 pm
Posts: 5
I've read most of this thread, and can agree on one thing. Assaults on the mothership need work. They are the one thing that always kills me, unless I'm farming below my level. I just broke into the inner system and was slaughtered by a BH ambush. I keep my bounty around medium and yet was against 5-6 large BH ships at once? The clockwork fell almost instantly just from enemy ships shooting through it to hit my ships. Otherwise I'm loving this expand.

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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Wed 28 Mar, 2012 8:20 pm 
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Hound
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Joined: Sun 12 Feb, 2012 8:27 pm
Posts: 1058
We have already discussed the Physics Issues of SPAZ in another thread. But things like replacing Acceleration with Velocity are very common in these games, because, well that's how stuff works on earth and it would take a lot of time to get used to. I mean, when approaching a Base you'd have to decelerate before you even SEE the damn thing with your own eyes. Half the game would be you, trying to get the ship to go the right way.

But whine/rant/brag aside, The clockwork doesn't move at all. I checked. It just rotates. Oh. So. Slowly.

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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar, 2012 12:11 am 
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Posts: 1400
It does move actually. Just very slowly, like a drunk goon piloting a maxed capacity freighter.


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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar, 2012 1:18 am 
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Hatchet

Joined: Wed 11 May, 2011 12:20 am
Posts: 160
Bounty hunters have been fine in my experience, especially since they are 100% avoidable if they are really giving you problems.

You know what's not fine?

Mass bombs.

They are fucking ridiculous now. A heavy mass bomb ones-hots a medium and there's nothing I can do about it. The slow radius is also entirely too large and too powerful. I had the unfortunate experience of fighting a helix and 2 gulls and it just was not fun at all. The slow radius was so large that even if I dodged the bombs I was still caught. I only beat them by spamming gophers at them, and even then every time a bomb was launched I would lose both of my AI wingmen.

It was absolute bullshit; and I'm one that has long argued for a challenge in the game. I now consider bomb chuckers to have the highest threat factor of any ship in the game--easily as dangerous as two to three other same-class ships.


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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar, 2012 2:04 am 
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Boomerang
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Joined: Mon 23 May, 2011 6:27 pm
Posts: 253
Location: UK
Well, I just found a fun new thing to do with the Raven; put Particle Cannons in the gun slots. Replace all the Medium Utility slots with Medium Cannon Boosters. Replace the Large Drone Bay with a Large Shield Booster.

Or maybe an Engine Booster. Or a Cloak Booster. You get the idea.

Nasty little things!

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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar, 2012 4:36 am 
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Hound
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Posts: 1400
@Allectus
Use that to your advantage. If you blow up their bomb before it gets too far the ship that fired it also gets caught in the slow effect + explosions.


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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar, 2012 5:26 am 
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Hatchet

Joined: Wed 11 May, 2011 12:20 am
Posts: 160
They will not be caught in their own slow effect. The first explosion doesn't do friendly fire, only the secondaries. There are actually a few ways to deal with them, probably the easiest of which is to simply lob your own bombs at them timed in a way to catch their bomb, so they get double after-shock explosions as you indicated.

Regardless, I'm just not having fun with the current build at all. Balance seems really wonky in a number of ways, from the crazy bombs, the buffed hull and subsequent survivability boost, the deterministic (and balanced enemy) tech tree...The thing that's actually upsetting me the most is the (apparent, though I could be imagining it) change in aggro mechanics. Before it was relatively easy to control aggro and perform aggro dumps, now it seems like hostiles will single-mindedly target `appropriate' targets (usually small -> small, med -> med, etc) and stay on them much longer than they would in the past. It's a change that has made the AI far more dangerous, but also far less fun to play with as there is not longer any interaction between the player and the AI beyond just trading shots. It feels like a mindless action game now, whereas before I felt like there was a lot more strategy (see, for example, my posts here: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1660 )

I honestly can't bring myself to play it anymore :-\


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 Post subject: Re: Bounty Hunter Impressions (Too hard?)
PostPosted: Thu 29 Mar, 2012 6:45 am 
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Hound
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Joined: Thu 15 Sep, 2011 3:54 am
Posts: 1400
Well, pre BH mass bombs weren't a threat at all, now they are. Using a cloak build helps, or using a powerful shield also works.


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