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 Post subject: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Tue 18 Oct, 2011 10:56 pm 
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Hound
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Hey folks. I'm working on the new bounty hunter ships we're going to include in the next content patch. One of my primary goals is to make these ships fill in any missing gaps in the current library of ships. Like all other human based ships, you'll be able to collect black boxes for these and eventually use them. Here is what I have so far ...

Small
High crew cap for boarding party
1 medium forward cannon (oversized for ship class)
3 utility mounts

Medium
2 medium forward cannons
1 medium drone bay
2 medium utility

Large
1 huge launcher
2 large launchers
1 large turret
1 utility mount

Huge
1 large bomb slot
2 large turrets
2 small turrets
1 huge utility
2 medium utility


Let me know what you all think.


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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Tue 18 Oct, 2011 11:27 pm 
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Hound
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Posts: 1400
All look great... now if only I knew what the ships looked like...


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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Tue 18 Oct, 2011 11:31 pm 
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Gyro

Joined: Fri 07 Oct, 2011 4:29 am
Posts: 103
Why does the new huge mine/bomb ship get a large slot for it instead of a huge? Would a huge minelayer lay too large of a field or something?

It's also the only huge ship besides the freighter to not get a huge weapon slot, and the freighter is absolutely terrible for combat.


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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2011 12:14 am 
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Scout

Joined: Sat 03 Sep, 2011 3:13 am
Posts: 35
Already said a bit about it all in that other thread though I am curious about the other stats of the ships. Will the Huge bomber be a slow/high hull health type? Or more agile? How about all the others?

* Hmmm, seeing the small ship loadout its getting awfully close to the Turtle Head. Both have high crew and decent utility slots. Its basically 1 medium shooter opposed to Turtles 2 smaller and then 1 extra utility slot for the Turtle Heads two small launcher mounts - now, the Turtle Head is slow as hell so perhaps this new one could be much faster while just as much hull health? (Ooooooh, just now realized that Turtle Head can't actually use a Crew weapon as it takes at least a Med. slot to use it - that changes things a tad.) hehe

* Medium one looks damn good. I think most peeps are gonna agree that this one is A-okay. Looking forward to getting earlier access to drones as well as fighting against them! Will make PD/Flak more useful early on too! Win/win!

* Large. Hmm, I remember a big ole' thread about how launchers were sorta bleh but that large turret will give it some bite against shielded enemies that get too close. I wonder though if 1 huge and 2 large will put out enough dmg - perhaps 4 large (not sure if thats actually more damage as I don't know much about how launchers scale with size). If a Huge torp/missile IS used I hope they have lots of health as it would suck to have it shot down... Seems like another good loadout though with that Lg. turret. Will it be high hull or sorta fragile like the other missile boats?

* Huge. So I take it there will only ever be Med. and Lg. Bomber mounts? Heh, I guess thats okay as the graphic for the Lg. Mass Bomb is already quite massive! The 4 turrets will ensure it can put up a fight in close range so thats good, though, you may want to think about the fact that a majority of the huge ships will now be primarily turret based... meaning they can be set to auto-turrets and just flown around while they auto-kill stuff (a big trend with the Carrier is that one huge turret with everything else boosters). 3 utility slots too, also nice. But, I've never actually used bombs or mines so I guess thats all I can say about this one.

All in all these are looking good to me! Will these 4 new ships ONLY be appearing as Bounty Hunters? Have you guys hammered out more details on how we're gonna meet them and do battle with'em?


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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2011 1:33 am 
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Hound
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@ the large ship; With an EBC dual mount that large turret coupled with the missiles becomes a huge threat, for a large ship!


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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2011 6:18 am 
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Scout

Joined: Wed 12 Oct, 2011 4:37 pm
Posts: 28
Those look good for bounty hunters. I was also thinking there is an other Huge hull that's missing. One that follows the Tug -> Mule line. An indirect attack ship with decent turret and missile capabilities as well as storage. The freighter just doesn't have all the capabilities of the tug or mule


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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2011 7:20 am 
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Dart

Joined: Tue 27 Sep, 2011 11:10 pm
Posts: 14
I think these sound great. Definitely fills in some gaps. I agree that the freighter should have a larger weapons mount.


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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2011 8:58 am 
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Hound
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If the freighter say lost a couple other the smaller utility slots, and the two small turrets and gained two large turrets, then I'd say it would be useful as both a direct or indirect attack ship... that or swap out some utility slots for additional small turrets.


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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2011 12:19 pm 
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Scout
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Richard wrote:
Large
1 huge launcher
2 large launchers
1 large turret
1 huge utility mount

Just tested Starcruiser without boosters and only with missiles. Firepower is laughty, Flora with 3 missile booster is much better as missile ship. So here should be places for boosters. I propose 1 huge or 2 large utility mounts.
Richard wrote:
Huge
1 huge bomb slot
2 large turrets
2 small turrets
1 huge utility
2 medium utility

Why not huge bomb slot?


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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2011 5:00 pm 
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Hound
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I think having a huge bomb might be to devastating. A high level large bomb can do so much damage, but the large bomb ships are lacking in other areas. The huge bomber I've proposed has quite a few other slots to make up for the fact the bomb slot isn't huge.


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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2011 5:03 pm 
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I unno, on my cloak run with minimal armor, in chapter 4, bombs were hardly a threat even when they did hit me... we could always try a huge bomb slot for the next patch and if it doesn't work due to balance issues, swap the slot back to large.


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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2011 6:33 pm 
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Scout
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Palandus wrote:
we could always try a huge bomb slot for the next patch and if it doesn't work due to balance issues, swap the slot back to large.

+1
As I wrote . . . somewhere :roll:, bombs have 2 problems:
1) It is hard to aim them at targeted ship. Looks like them select target randomly.
2) At late stages of game ships (include huge ships) fast enough to leave dangerous area before secondary charges explodes.
IMO only use - EM bomb with missiles to destroy starbases in middlegame. Later - easier to devastate everything with cannons and without any tricks :)


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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2011 7:49 pm 
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Gyro

Joined: Sat 14 May, 2011 10:45 am
Posts: 124
Personally, I think bombs would become much more useful for the player if they went back to being manually piloted and the AI of the firing ship was adjusted to keep it from bum-rushing. With the (usually) superior aiming/timing of the player, a Large bomb would seem a lot more effective and a Huge might not be needed.

Otherwise... the slowing effect never seems to be good enough to catch ships with the various flares unless the enemy has abysmal Engine tech.


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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2011 8:04 pm 
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Hatchet
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Medium gets J's seal of approval!

I think the large bomb should be enough for the huge hull as you can boost it a lot with huge utility mount + possible with the large ones too. That should make upgraded bombs fairly devastating.

Can't say anything about large or small yet. Small sounds interesting if it's used solely as marine vessel to board enemy ships.

I've always liked the visual design of SPAZs ships. Can't wait to see what these ones will look like.

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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2011 8:31 pm 
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I'm tempted to show you, but it's still very much a work in progress. Sit tight and I'll show you folks something when there is something worth showing ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2011 8:34 pm 
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Gyro

Joined: Fri 07 Oct, 2011 4:29 am
Posts: 103
J HG T wrote:
I think the large bomb should be enough for the huge hull as you can boost it a lot with huge utility mount + possible with the large ones too. That should make upgraded bombs fairly devastating.


Bomb, mine and drone boosters do NOT exist. Also booster slots are relative to the size of a ship. A huge booster on a huge ship boosts as much as a large booster on a large ship.


Richard wrote:
I think having a huge bomb might be to devastating. A high level large bomb can do so much damage, but the large bomb ships are lacking in other areas. The huge bomber I've proposed has quite a few other slots to make up for the fact the bomb slot isn't huge.


"Can" do so much damage. But it doesn't, because when a mass bomb hits a large or huge ship they just evade the shrapnel.

I've found mines to be useful (when the AI isn't prematurely detonating a perfectly good mine field), but mass bombs are just a big meh. They make a cool explosion sound, but they're extremely impractical for much of anything. On my first playthrough I only found them useful for assaulting stations, and even then the shrapnel would often miss the station it impacted into. This second playthrough every enemy ship with a mass bomb is considered the weakest target, except for maybe a freighter if the zombies are unlucky enough to get that as a huge ship.


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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2011 8:40 pm 
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Hatchet
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P51mus wrote:

Bomb, mine and drone boosters do NOT exist. Also booster slots are relative to the size of a ship. A huge booster on a huge ship boosts as much as a large booster on a large ship.



Ooops! My bad. Need to really refresh my SPAZ knowledge. Other games and real life...
I'll reserve judgement on that huge hull for now. Still, knowing that there's no bomb boosters I'm leaning toward huge bomb/mine slot.

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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2011 8:43 pm 
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Gopher
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A dedicated huge bomber would be absolutely hilarious.
Perhaps make it have the hull strength of a Hound if need be.

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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2011 9:17 pm 
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Gyro

Joined: Fri 24 Jun, 2011 6:03 pm
Posts: 117
Over from the other post. Richard I like the current ships stas and the tweaks you have given them. The small ship will indeed fill a gap and the turret on the large gives it some defence the volley lacks. A huge bomb slot would be a bit much.

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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2011 9:47 pm 
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I don't know if I should be telling you all this, but ...

When I use mass bombs I tend to attack my targets from opposite sides. This basically makes the Ai have a rough time evading the explosive droplets. You back that up with some ships using grav missiles, and there isn't' much you can't kill. This is why I'm a tad reluctant to make any bombs more powerful then they currently are. I haven't seen anyone mention this tactic yet, but it sure seems potent when I play. I was almost sure they would need a nerf after release.

Anyone else try this?


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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2011 10:29 pm 
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Scout
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So, by your opinion, I need 2 things to effectively use bombs:
1) AI wingman with gravity missiles.
2) Player controlled ship with bombs.

Tactics:
1) Follow wingman and wait until wingman's gravity missile slow some ship.
2) Launch bomb.
3) Bomb explodes and destroying targeted ship . . . in theory :)

In practice:
1) Following wingman and awaiting, when grav.missiles randomly selects needed target and slow it . . . so long and so boring. And yes, only small ships can be slowed, you need alot of hits to slow enough large or huge ship. And, of course, enemy ships will shoot back :)
2) Even target in front of player, bomb can turn around and try to reach another ship. As result it misses and before bomb reloads enemy will destroy you . . . damn.

As result - instead of just devastate enemy with entire fleet, we doing some strange things and losing ships.


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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2011 11:05 pm 
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Hound
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The mass bomb is an interesting idea, but in practice its really hard to use... Shame you couldn't use the Mass Bomb like the bomb from Raptor...


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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Wed 19 Oct, 2011 11:11 pm 
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Gyro

Joined: Fri 07 Oct, 2011 4:29 am
Posts: 103
Richard wrote:
I don't know if I should be telling you all this, but ...

When I use mass bombs I tend to attack my targets from opposite sides. This basically makes the Ai have a rough time evading the explosive droplets. You back that up with some ships using grav missiles, and there isn't' much you can't kill. This is why I'm a tad reluctant to make any bombs more powerful then they currently are. I haven't seen anyone mention this tactic yet, but it sure seems potent when I play. I was almost sure they would need a nerf after release.

Anyone else try this?



Are you saying to launch mass bombs at the enemy from two different ships from both sides?

That sounds like a lot of work to make mass bombs useful, when for beams, cannons or mines you can destroy the enemies with just a single ship. Mass bombs are just impractical to use currently.


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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Thu 20 Oct, 2011 1:07 am 
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Hound
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Two Ideas:

1) What if you removed the secondary explosion from the Mass Bomb and simply made the initial impact much more devestating. As many have said most people can outrun the secondary explosion...or

2) What if you made the secondary explosion detonate 50% sooner, so that enemies couldn't escape the blast radius...


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 Post subject: Re: Working on new bounty hunter ships. Feedback welcome!
PostPosted: Thu 20 Oct, 2011 2:05 am 
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Shortbus

Joined: Thu 20 Oct, 2011 1:59 am
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Changing the subject from the bombs ships.
What I would like to see in bounty hunters is a more off combat huge carrier with almost no close counter measures and hight offensive power in drones. I would love to see a carrier like that be able to deploy long ranged grunt shutles =)


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