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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Mon 03 Oct, 2011 11:07 pm 
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Scout

Joined: Tue 23 Aug, 2011 6:14 pm
Posts: 44
Location: northampton, UK
SuperJay wrote:
Quick question - I'm too far in to start over (I'm at about level 55, just breached the inner worlds), but can you give us an idea what tuning changes won't make it into our existing (continued) games? I just want to know what is expected behavior so I don't waste your time reporting those as bugs. Thanks!


i think the patch affects existing saves, look at my post above yours :P

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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Mon 03 Oct, 2011 11:11 pm 
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Grasshopper

Joined: Sun 18 Sep, 2011 2:50 pm
Posts: 54
Yep, sorry - I was asking specifically about this comment:

Blorfy wrote:
It is safe to continue playing, BUT some of the tuning will not make it into your game.


Just wondering if either Richard or Blorfy know could elaborate a bit so we don't report those as issues. :)


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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Mon 03 Oct, 2011 11:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri 25 Feb, 2011 3:21 am
Posts: 1998
All the tuning will make it into existing save games. We did tune the stats on specialists, but that will only effect new ones. You may still have some overpowered ones until you throw them out ;).


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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Mon 03 Oct, 2011 11:37 pm 
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The changes in the patch that will effect older saves are the following:
- Your old specialists will remain overpowered (we dont nerf what you already have)
- Your drone research will not update the drone damage
- Space stations will still be often level 0 when full of tech (making them too easy to knock over)
- A couple zombie missions will not be there for you. Richard added a couple

Otherwise I think everything will just plug in. The real big change for you is keeping the overpowered specialists. The game is tuned against the newer more sane leveling ones, so you may end up being a God by the end of the game. If you were to sell off your specialists, you would get a pretty fair playthrough still. Also, the fewer specialists you have, the more likely they are to drop, so they will replenish fast.


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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Mon 03 Oct, 2011 11:37 pm 
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Ahh Richard beat me to it... what he said hehe.


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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Mon 03 Oct, 2011 11:42 pm 
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Ranger
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Posts: 325
I noted it in the bugs forum, but your AI ships are still firing at tractored rez, in my new Insane run. So far, I have no other complaints. :D

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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Mon 03 Oct, 2011 11:43 pm 
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I shall add to the list for the next update. Tnx for the info.


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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Tue 04 Oct, 2011 1:07 am 
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Gyro

Joined: Sat 14 May, 2011 10:45 am
Posts: 124
Palandus wrote:
@SilvasRuin:

You could say that with the final fight it is now a cumulative difficulty increase without actually modifying the last fight. For example:

Changed Readjusted all difficulty levels.
Changed Difficulty affects: Zombie critter combat prowess
Changed Difficulty affects: Zombie intercept turns
Changed Difficulty affects: Zombie intercept fleet size
Changed Difficulty affects: Zombie invasion chance
Changed Difficulty affects: Zombie invasion strength

Now, I'm assuming that if you played the game on Expert compared to easy with the changes above, will now make Expert actually expert, and Easy maybe easy.

Someone already said they noticed a major difference in the final fight difficulty so I will retract my concerns there for now, but I did want to address your point. Out of the five changes you listed, only the first is relevant to that last fight. The other four change the chapter leading up to the fight but don't do anything to alter the fight itself.


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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Tue 04 Oct, 2011 4:41 am 
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Shortbus

Joined: Tue 04 Oct, 2011 4:16 am
Posts: 1
I've noticed while on the final fight that if you have the fusion beam emitter "the only beam weapon that fires constantly" that you dont stop damaging the boss when the titan beam isnt firing. I dont know if you tested it but i wouldnt doubt that it isnt the only one eather.


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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Tue 04 Oct, 2011 5:22 am 
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Posts: 1767
Yup, you can damage the boss even when the beam is not firing, but the damage can be healed. The final battle is a little bit of a ballet, but I do not want to spoil it for people with too much explanation.


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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Tue 04 Oct, 2011 2:29 pm 
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Grasshopper

Joined: Sun 18 Sep, 2011 2:50 pm
Posts: 54
Thanks for avoiding spoilers! :)

And much obliged for the details re: patch changes and continuing games. I'm not too eager to vent my awesome overpowered Specialists, so I think I'll just pretend they got nerfed for now. ;) (I got lucky and snagged a Godlike specialist early on in the game - Ruby "Nocknuts" - and she gives bonuses to cannon range and cloaked damage, which are integral to my builds. Especially since I had to bid farewell to my OP disruptor cannon+ion burst cannon combination. Hehehe!)


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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Tue 04 Oct, 2011 3:47 pm 
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Shortbus

Joined: Sat 04 Jun, 2011 11:09 pm
Posts: 4
Nevermind, I asked a stupid question


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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Tue 04 Oct, 2011 5:28 pm 
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Hound
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Joined: Thu 15 Sep, 2011 3:54 am
Posts: 1400
I can believe that the final fight is gonna be harder.. hell my playthrough right now on Veteran was harder than my playthrough on Insane on 1.001.

If only I could get these things, then the game would be easier for me...:
-> A right hook (got 60% currently)
-> A standard cloak (only got surplus which sucks balls)
-> Cannon Booster/Suicide cannon (can't find either yet and have unlocked about 40 systems / 150 systems.


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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Tue 04 Oct, 2011 9:20 pm 
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Shortbus
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Joined: Fri 13 May, 2011 6:59 am
Posts: 7
Blorfy wrote:
Wow, you are fast Kloreep. Yup, the Steam patch is up, and we are building the non Steam patch now. Should be up in < 1 hour.

How should those of us who bought the game through BMT Micro go about getting the patch?


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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Tue 04 Oct, 2011 11:36 pm 
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Posts: 1767
Hi Janus,

If you start up your version of SPAZ, you should see an "update available" in the launcher. This will work for any version greater than 1.000. Otherwise if your version is much older, you can grab the patch here:


http://spacepiratesandzombies.com/freeFiles/SpazPatch_v1.000_to_v1.005.exe


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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Tue 04 Oct, 2011 11:51 pm 
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Shortbus
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Joined: Fri 13 May, 2011 6:59 am
Posts: 7
Ah, in-game update notification. Serves me right for not running the game first to see if it showed up there. :P
Thanks.


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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Wed 05 Oct, 2011 1:02 am 
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Scout
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Joined: Tue 04 Oct, 2011 6:34 pm
Posts: 35
aw that sucks some content isnt available to already made files and i just started a few days ago oh well not a total loss just have to restart


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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2011 11:01 am 
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Dart

Joined: Thu 06 Oct, 2011 10:50 am
Posts: 15
One thing I noticed, not sure if it's intended, that an AI with a stealth device, will not shoot at all when stealth is down.

Say there's a Huge Hull enemy ship that's cloaked, it shoots once, gets decloaked because of it, and if I just have a tiny beam weapon, I can keep it from getting cloaked again. So far so good, however, it will not fire at all unless I stop firing the beam and it gets cloaked again. so I could potentially prevent a Huge Hull ship from shooting at all with just a Tiny Hull ship. Of course I'm not taking drones into consideration.


One thing else I noticed that missiles still seem to be very underpowered to me. This may be my personal opinion and not a fact. A Volley equipped with 6 SRM missile launchers (The one I found most damaging) will vastly underperform a Colt with 3 standard beam (or cannon) weapons, with 2X reactor and 1X shield booster. And the Volley is a medium hull as well.

I tried all sorts of combinations with missiles, beam and cannon weapons (All at Upgrade level 6, so the higher required weapons were obviously locked out). The beam and cannon weapons do at least two times the damage comparatively, from what I could see. With this I mean the average damage per second. Sustained, beam and cannon weapons win, only the first second (The time Volley gets to fire all 6 SRMs) is when the missiles deal a nice burst. The longer the battle wages, the more impressive beam and cannon weapons get comparatively.

*Note, I didn't use weapon boosters at all, I don't know if, say, a missile booster adds a lot more to missiles than a cannon booster does to cannons, but pretty sure it's not the case, or marginally different.


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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2011 2:16 pm 
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Grasshopper

Joined: Sun 18 Sep, 2011 2:50 pm
Posts: 54
FWIW, I don't think missile damage, beam damage, and cannon damage are supposed to be equal; I think the fact that missiles lock on and generally have a longer range than beams or cannons is part of their advantage. That said, missile damage may indeed be on the low end of the scale; I haven't really been using them due mostly to old, pre-1.005 habits. :) (The only missiles I use with any regularity are gravity missiles, for the slow effect rather than damage.)


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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2011 4:53 pm 
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Posts: 1767
We will have to investigate that clocking bug. I have never seen the behavior, but I have also never looked for it. Thanks for the report.

Missiles are meant to be a secondary weapon for the most part because they do all the work for you. They are very weak vs shields, so you cannot at long range just pummel a station to death for example, but once the shield are down their damage ramps quickly. For example a torpedo vs an unshielded ship is devastatingly powerful. Missiles also do damage to the closest 3 armor sections when they hit and are the most damaging to the hull 2x damage bonus. If you save you missiles for once you pop an enemy's shield and then release them, you'll have a lot of success.


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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2011 6:14 pm 
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Dart

Joined: Thu 06 Oct, 2011 10:50 am
Posts: 15
Blorfy wrote:
We will have to investigate that clocking bug. I have never seen the behavior, but I have also never looked for it. Thanks for the report.


No problem, I tried this out with three enemy ships on easy (Since that's the easiest way to test how AI reacts to your behavior without getting pummeled to death) with the highest enemy ship being Large, but they all did the same thing. I figured the AI script tells it to stop firing until it goes back into cloak for maximum damage, and this is a weird way to abuse it.

Blorfy wrote:
Missiles are meant to be a secondary weapon for the most part because they do all the work for you.


That's a good point, I read a few topics here and there about people playing around in a Volley with long range missiles and avoiding damage that way. However, this definitely doesn't seem to be the case with SRM as you have to be rather close for it to be effective, and the really, really long reload time doesn't help with the SRM's when you are up close. Maybe worth looking into having SRM as a viable main damage weapon? I do see SRM's tracking mines and such a lot too, so perhaps it may be useful using it as a minesweeper instead of a main damage weapon. The cloak detecting SRM weapons might also be great for this.

Blorfy wrote:
Missiles also do damage to the closest 3 armor sections when they hit and are the most damaging to the hull 2x damage bonus. If you save you missiles for once you pop an enemy's shield and then release them, you'll have a lot of success.


I never knew about the three armor sections part, probably due to my lack of "lurking" on the forum. It's definitely worth it for me to re-evaluate my tests and see how it goes. There was too much going on for me to notice "oh wow the missiles did damage to the neighboring plates", I'll try it out next time though!





Something else, those... red cannons (The fast firing ones that are decent to all three sections) on a huge ship (Huge slot), pretty much rival the distance of long range missiles (3200 range or so?), and are extremely devastating now. I could poke out anything without anything getting in range of me with those. I haven't tried out the top tier missiles and bombs yet with 1.005, so I'm kind of hoping they'll match up in terms of average damage per second. I'm also going to try out and build a pure launcher ship on a huge hull with launcher boosters and hopefully be able to find specialists that boosts it as well.

Maybe an idea for you to add in EMP missiles? I figure the beams pretty much cover the shields, but it would be nice to have even more customization. Mass driver + emp missiles for example might work out, though probably too overpowered if it does!



Also, maybe not new to 1.005 and just a really small issue, I noticed that after beams fire, they expand heat on the "barrel" which then cools down. It's a nice effect, but it seems to persist for a couple of seconds, making you able to detect ships that shot a beam and went back into cloak quickly for a few seconds. Really minor, I don't know if it's intended or not, but it does seem realistic.


Great patch, noticed a good deal of improvement on performance even on my high-end PC.


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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2011 9:05 pm 
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Joined: Fri 25 Feb, 2011 3:39 am
Posts: 1767
interestingly, an EMP missile was one of the first missiles we made, but it was soooooooooo exploitable that we needed to remove it. A missile that knocked down shields and disabled the ship, and then following up with torps was just too mean hehe.


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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2011 9:53 pm 
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Dart

Joined: Thu 06 Oct, 2011 10:50 am
Posts: 15
Very interesting. I am wondering that when you designed it, if you already had point defenses. I figured with some of those and a high booster research level, it wouldn't have been much of a threat ;). Of course those could have been countered or amplified with specialists. This is still the case of course with less effect, but I figure if you had 4 specialists that boost one weapon in particular even after the nerf, there's not much an AI can do about it. Of course first have to find those specialists, but that's a part of the game I like a lot. Nothing quite like finding "loot" in a game and reap the benefits!


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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2011 11:15 pm 
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Scout
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Joined: Tue 04 Oct, 2011 6:34 pm
Posts: 35
alright update 1.006 is out today


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 Post subject: Re: Version 1.005 Patch Notes.
PostPosted: Thu 06 Oct, 2011 11:33 pm 
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Dart

Joined: Thu 06 Oct, 2011 10:50 am
Posts: 15
Indeed! I'm surprised. Any interesting changelog? I mean, has to be some urgent hotfix or something but still nice to know what actually changed ;)


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