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 Post subject: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Wed 01 Jun, 2011 1:26 am 
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Dart

Joined: Wed 01 Jun, 2011 1:16 am
Posts: 19
I shot about 35 goons into a ship that had about 12 people on it, and didn't notice any real kind of effect on it.

What exactly does this gun do? And is there something I'm missing about it? Does it not work on ships that have their shields up or something?


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Wed 01 Jun, 2011 1:38 am 
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Boomerang
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Boarding actions are pretty slow. First your goons have to kill all the enemy crew, and once there are no defenders left the target ship starts taking damage as they sabotage it and generally wreck up the place. Once the target's hull hits zero it blows up and the marines eject again... although not all of them will make it.

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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Wed 01 Jun, 2011 3:27 am 
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Dart

Joined: Wed 01 Jun, 2011 1:16 am
Posts: 19
so like how many dudes should you fire at their ship in proportion to dudes on their ship?


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Wed 01 Jun, 2011 3:47 am 
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Gopher

Joined: Thu 19 May, 2011 10:19 pm
Posts: 78
lets see if the enemy ship has from 0-1000 dudes on it you should fire 0 goons at the enemy ship. (suicide cannons are horrible you might as well self destruct your ship for more damage)

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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Wed 01 Jun, 2011 4:34 am 
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Ranger
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Posts: 325
Suicide Cannons and Grunt Shuttles should only be used if you like to waste resources... And I pity anyone who might think it would be a good idea to fire either at zombie ships. The crew tech tree is a good one, but both of those "weapons" are so beyond suboptimal, the only uses I see for them would be if we could actually capture ships we can't currently build and have an empty hangar to store them in, or story missions that required boarding parties. Otherwise, you can skip those two techs altogether.

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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Wed 01 Jun, 2011 4:45 am 
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Dart

Joined: Sat 14 May, 2011 7:50 pm
Posts: 10
IMHO this cannon was designed for a special state of mind.

At least I think you need to smoke a lot of wacky tabacky to think it's a good idea to fire your precious goons onto some random enemy ship to have it slowly sabotaged to death, when you could quickly blow it to pieces with your guns for free.


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Wed 01 Jun, 2011 4:50 am 
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Hatchet

Joined: Wed 11 May, 2011 12:20 am
Posts: 160
Boarding actions are actually very good at taking out level 3 stations in chapter 2 before you can do so cost effectively otherwise. They're also pretty good at taking out huge ships before you have your own to counter with.

Boarding is not cost effective in most cases--except when you're severely outclassed already.


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Wed 01 Jun, 2011 4:57 am 
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Ranger
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Posts: 325
A fair point, Allectus. I personally see it as not being worth the cost, but it is still a fair point. If one doesn't have the launcher techs or the beam/cannon range to hit a station, that can be an expensive, but viable alternative.

As far as actually capturing ships, If we can't capture a ship permanently, being able to turn it into a temporary ally until the end of a battle would be a good use of these weapons.

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"I once shot a Cylon in Reno, just to watch him Resurrect."


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Wed 01 Jun, 2011 8:07 am 
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Dart

Joined: Mon 23 May, 2011 4:35 am
Posts: 15
How about a sub game where you send a suicide bomb at the enemy ship, it burrows in
and your marines spew out and you engage in some hand to hand combat on the ship. :-)

Top down view, bunch of guys with flamethrowers, causing havoc on the enemy ship.
The ultimate aim might be to capture the enemy ship, but you have to work for it rather than just RNG it.


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Wed 01 Jun, 2011 12:49 pm 
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Dart

Joined: Wed 01 Jun, 2011 1:16 am
Posts: 19
How To Be A Horrible Person With The Suicide Cannon:

1: Get two Yachts
2: Equip them with cloak
3: Mount them with dual suicide cannons
4: Sneak up on biggest ship and fire a ton of guys into the ship. Then run away and cloak
5: wait until the ship dies and get your guys back
6: Repeat until all the big ships are dead.

but yeah suicide cannon needs a buff. A: Make it so that enemy crew members are not killed during the engagement but captured, that way when the ship blows up you have more guys than just the guys that went in and can make up what you lost

and B: make it so that if the number of people in the boarding party is equal to the total amount of active people on the enemy ship, then the ship shuts down and stops moving since very hand would have to be fighting for the ship and stuff right? so like if there's 20 guys on a ship, and I blast 20 guys into the ship, then that ship will stop operating until it's resolved. Also if you shot 15 guys and they had 20, the ship would stop operating if the two fighting armies reached equal numbers.


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Wed 01 Jun, 2011 9:56 pm 
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Gopher
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Joined: Tue 24 May, 2011 11:59 am
Posts: 96
Being able to somehow command the marines to target specific ship facilities could be interesting.
Objectives could include sabotaging or even permanently destroying shield generators, targetting the reactor, propulsion systems or just focusing on crew.

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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Wed 01 Jun, 2011 11:04 pm 
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Ranger
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Joined: Tue 10 May, 2011 11:54 am
Posts: 325
FinDude wrote:
Being able to somehow command the marines to target specific ship facilities could be interesting.
Objectives could include sabotaging or even permanently destroying shield generators, targetting the reactor, propulsion systems or just focusing on crew.

This idea reminds me of the Star Fleet Command games, which I enjoyed.

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"When things get tough, remember that Short Buses are an infinitely renewable resource!"
"I once shot a Cylon in Reno, just to watch him Resurrect."


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Thu 02 Jun, 2011 1:24 am 
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Hatchet

Joined: Wed 11 May, 2011 12:20 am
Posts: 160
Genmanator wrote:
FinDude wrote:
Being able to somehow command the marines to target specific ship facilities could be interesting.
Objectives could include sabotaging or even permanently destroying shield generators, targetting the reactor, propulsion systems or just focusing on crew.

This idea reminds me of the Star Fleet Command games, which I enjoyed.


Also, Nexus: the Jupiter Incident.

If you want to see an amazing rendition of fighters and boarding in epic space battles, that's the go to game.

Edit: I'd also like to state that boarding is _much_ cheaper now. With the decreased goon rejection rate I find I'm constantly maxed on goons. I'm finding I basically never have to bribe anymore as I've learned how to fight effectively; with the boosted mission rewards rez is basically never a problem (not that it was in the past), so trading goons for rez is just silly; and buying data really isn't necessary until you hit level 70ish at which point you have little need to board anything anyway (as you'll be nearing/in chapter 4).

What else am I going to use them for until zombies really become a problem in chapter 4?


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Tue 07 Jun, 2011 11:45 pm 
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Gopher

Joined: Tue 07 Jun, 2011 10:27 pm
Posts: 84
Yeah the Jupiter Incident really did look fantastic.

I would like to see boarding action-type stuff just not use goons at all. "marines" does not necessarily have to equate to "goons".


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Tue 07 Jun, 2011 11:51 pm 
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Ranger
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Joined: Tue 10 May, 2011 11:54 am
Posts: 325
I can see why they would be, in this game. You always have enough people for a skeleton crew to run your ships, and the goons are just extra. "Red Shirts" pretty much sums up what they are, and what they do.

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"When things get tough, remember that Short Buses are an infinitely renewable resource!"
"I once shot a Cylon in Reno, just to watch him Resurrect."


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Wed 08 Jun, 2011 4:52 am 
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Hatchet

Joined: Fri 13 May, 2011 7:51 am
Posts: 170
Yeah, from what I've seen the crew weapons are only good for 'asymetrical warfare'.

The enemy will sometimes use them to screw you over in cases where it otherwise poses no threat, and if you are trying to knock over a particularly deadly hull or station that badly outclasses you and you are willing to sacrifice the resources, you can potentially do so with sacrifice cannons or shuttles.

For standard battles where you are equal to or more powerful than your enemies, they are a complete waste of time and resources.


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Wed 08 Jun, 2011 9:33 am 
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Gopher

Joined: Tue 07 Jun, 2011 10:27 pm
Posts: 84
Genmanator wrote:
I can see why they would be, in this game. You always have enough people for a skeleton crew to run your ships, and the goons are just extra. "Red Shirts" pretty much sums up what they are, and what they do.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it doesn't make sense thematically as it is now; I'm just saying that, thinking about goons as a resource (way more important than rez, since Rez is super easy to get), and by how much of a pain it is to fly around and collect escape pods (especially given that AI ships tend to shoot missile swarms at spaced bodies, hitting nearby pods in the process), it doesn't make sense to throw goons away without some significant benefits.

On the other hand, I'm a grade A hoarder, and I hate to willingly throw away resources for any reason... I'm that guy that would stockpile health/mana potions in Diablo 2 and never use them, because "I might need them later" :oops:


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Wed 08 Jun, 2011 10:38 am 
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Ranger
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Joined: Tue 10 May, 2011 11:54 am
Posts: 325
I understand where you're coming from, and others have also expressed similar feedback regarding how valuable goons are. I actually rate having a supply of goons as more crucial than running with a full fleet, unless I've just jumped into a Cheap Motel event. AI tweaks the devs have mentioned should fix a lot of those issues you mentioned, I expect. I have also read that we should have more methods to restock on goons in future patches, so that's something (among many good things!) to look forward to.

Side note: I have a tendency to hoard in games as well. I only tend to splurge when the resources are plentiful, and/or cheap to restock.

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"When things get tough, remember that Short Buses are an infinitely renewable resource!"
"I once shot a Cylon in Reno, just to watch him Resurrect."


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Wed 08 Jun, 2011 5:18 pm 
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Hound
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Joined: Fri 25 Feb, 2011 3:21 am
Posts: 1998
We will indeed be adding more way to harvest goons in the future. The suicide cannons is a bit pricey for the benefit you get out of it, and we'll be working on that too.


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Sat 18 Jun, 2011 11:54 am 
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Shortbus
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Joined: Thu 16 Jun, 2011 8:25 pm
Posts: 7
I think it's a classy idea having boarding parties, but it needs to be better implemented.

- More goons. I'm on chapter 3 and I'm capped at 300. Which is okay, but I can't see 301 people taking over a galaxy. Should be right up there in the thousands if crew warfare is truly going to be implemented. Plus, as it stands, like the others on this thread have said, goons are too valuable to waste.

- Make the effects of a crew boarding more prolific. Slow damage of systems after you've killed the crew is okay, but it'd be nice if you could turn the ship against the enemy's own fleet. Or maybe in ransacking their ship you could recover a lot more data than you would by just destroying it, including blueprints it was using maybe? Destroying space stations is a little out of my depth at the moment if I can't please everybody in the system, so an easier way to get part blueprints would be nice.

- Bigger battles. Right now in any one mission (I haven't reached end-game yet, so this point may be completely invalid) it's my 3 ships and maybe one or two allied ships, against a couple of waves of ships. It's great, but the battles do just feel like a small skirmish, even when fighting Huge class ships. It'd be great to see an epic clash between the faction you sided with (if any) in the system and the enemy faction, to finally wrestle control of the system (This could maybe open up trade links between systems for Rez income or something) involving 20 maybe 30 ships?

- Bigger ships. If anyone here has played EVE Online they'll know what I mean when I say the ships in SPAZ aren't big enough! The differences in size of the classes of ships in EVE is amazing, but in SPAZ my Large class can dock in a space station that's maybe only 4/3s of its size, which is a bit strange. I'd love to see much greater scaling of ships. When I see a huge class on my tactics map, I wanna s*** my knickers at its sheer size. This, combined with the above point would make boarding parties much more practical (perhaps a group of smaller ships sending marines into a much larger ship to take control of it) and also a lot more fun.

I really do love this game the way it is, and these are just suggestions I thought up while playing. Please don't troll me :D


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Sat 18 Jun, 2011 3:53 pm 
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Grasshopper

Joined: Sun 12 Jun, 2011 9:46 pm
Posts: 53
Everyone always forgets how boarding actions slow your ship along with various other penalties that make it a greater pain to use. You see it with zombie swarms all that damned time.

That means most of your ideas for sabotaging ship systems are already implemented, and it's quite a help against superior ships.

Prisoners and other resource bonuses are the only thing necessary to make boarding actions worthwhile. Then you might even do it for fun.


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Thu 23 Jun, 2011 4:31 am 
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Dart

Joined: Sat 18 Jun, 2011 4:27 am
Posts: 17
Yea, Suicide Cannons and Grunt Cannons will need a major overhaul. I kind of like the idea, but who really wants to shoot their load into an enemy and wait 5 hours for it to be destroyed. Ideas.... I have none.


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Sat 10 Dec, 2011 3:31 pm 
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Shortbus

Joined: Fri 11 Nov, 2011 3:10 pm
Posts: 7
Hi guys

I have the suicide cannon and grunt shuttle blueprints.

However I cannot get my suicide cannon equipped ships to launch the marines.

Do I need a particular excess crew level onboard?

Do I need a particular level in tech for cannon's or launchers?

In essence what do I need to fire a suicide cannon in-game?


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Sat 10 Dec, 2011 5:00 pm 
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Ranger
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Joined: Thu 24 Nov, 2011 10:14 pm
Posts: 328
Location: Weert, the Netherlands.
blackbook wrote:
Hi guys

I have the suicide cannon and grunt shuttle blueprints.

However I cannot get my suicide cannon equipped ships to launch the marines.

Do I need a particular excess crew level onboard?

Do I need a particular level in tech for cannon's or launchers?

In essence what do I need to fire a suicide cannon in-game?


The same as with all other upgrades, a certain level in the right tree, in this case u need lvl 3 in the Crew tree for SC and lvl 5 for GS, just mouse over the lvls in a tree to see what and if they unlock something.


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Sat 10 Dec, 2011 8:10 pm 
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Shortbus

Joined: Fri 11 Nov, 2011 3:10 pm
Posts: 7
Weertangel wrote:
blackbook wrote:
Hi guys

I have the suicide cannon and grunt shuttle blueprints.

However I cannot get my suicide cannon equipped ships to launch the marines.

Do I need a particular excess crew level onboard?

Do I need a particular level in tech for cannon's or launchers?

In essence what do I need to fire a suicide cannon in-game?


The same as with all other upgrades, a certain level in the right tree, in this case u need lvl 3 in the Crew tree for SC and lvl 5 for GS, just mouse over the lvls in a tree to see what and if they unlock something.


Ok I have got it now. I initially didn't think the Suicide Cannon was working, this was because I didn't expect the graphic to be the same as the crew evacuation pod.

I now have the suicide cannon and the grunt shuttle working.

I just had a ship outside of a UTA Security Station firing off all of it's Grunt Shuttles until there were no more crew.

The ship was not targeting the hostile Security Base, it was just firing wildly under AI control.

Surely this is a bug?


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