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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Mon 12 Dec, 2011 2:48 pm 
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Scout

Joined: Fri 05 Aug, 2011 1:02 pm
Posts: 35
The suicide cannon is one of the things that make this game stand out. :) It's totally cool and ruthless. When I first discovered this feature I said "Holy shit, this game really does it! It just got 100 points in my book!".

Then I tried to use it. Yeah, it's fun, but I found its use very limited only to weaken ships you really can't take out head-on. But then I'm also a resource hoarder so every time i play the game I end up researching this tech but I never use it. There are two problems connected to it: launching platform needs a lot of goons which limits the choice to Big Bus (to bulky without turrets so I don't use it other than for Cheap Hotel events) or Huge Ships (which really do not need that strategy at that point). The second problem is that you exhaust your goon supplies.

That said, this game has a lot of great features that really shine when you micromanage your fleet but that find their use only in certain situations. I would put the suicide cannon next to the "Request additional crew members" option that I use a lot when I'm boarded, so that I can save the bigger ship. It's far easier to just vent the crew and and recall the ship for repairs and re-staff, but sometimes you value more the rez you can save and the momentum in the battle. Those options are there for that tactical, fairly personal purpose. How many games offer you as much?

I really like the idea of taking control of the boarded ship but I fear it would overpower the feature even more. It's almost god-like right now, if you max out the Crew tech tree, and the only limitations are the ones that you have already pointed out (although in the 4th chapter the goon availability is a non-issue due to the ample supplies and goon farms).

And yes, I took down a zombie blight ship from the inside with tens of grunt shuttles. :evil: But that's it.... this game makes me feel a cold hearted bastard, more than Peter Molyneux games ever did.... That's why I like it. You think the idea of hanging around a cheap hotel and kidnapping civilians is any better? It is if you do not use them to throw them into the zombies ships! ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Sat 17 Dec, 2011 8:29 am 
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Shortbus

Joined: Sat 17 Dec, 2011 7:17 am
Posts: 4
This is my first post so sorry if its sounds like gibberish.

1. An idea could be to actually train goons into dedicated marines. Meaning each ship could have a second slider bar like the extra goons bar for each ship. These marines would not improve the ships performance like standard goons do, but would increase a ships ability to fight off boarders and be more effective in boarding actions compared to normal goons. This would make marines much more cost effective when used for boarding actions compared to normal goons if they were made to be 2 to 4 more times effective at boarding actions and ship defense.
2. When an enemy ship is boarded successfully and the enemy crew has been subdued you could have an option in the tactics menu to either
1) Take control of the ship, which would take a larger number of boarders to crew an enemy ship, once the battle is over if the ship is still intact you receive a data bonus and extra blueprint bonus for taking a ship intact along with getting all the rez in the ship's cargo hold going directly to your mother ship and any surviving crew taken as prisoners.
2) have the surviving boarders evacuate the ship and put it into lock down , letting you quickly get your crew back and and turning the ship into a floating hulk that can be used for cover or to simply increase the chances of having the ship survive the battle, and get the same after battle bonuses as taking over a ship if it survives to the end of the battle.
3) have most of the borders evacuate the ship and purge the cargo hold while a skeleton crew remains behind to have the ship do a kamikaze style suicide attack on a target of your choosing. :twisted: Obviously you loose any data bonus and only get the normal amount of blueprint data .

That's my 2 cents on the matter.


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Sat 17 Dec, 2011 4:46 pm 
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Ranger
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Joined: Thu 24 Nov, 2011 10:14 pm
Posts: 328
Location: Weert, the Netherlands.
Heh, definitly cool ideas, love first one where u could train marines to inprove boarding resistance and for take over actions.

But i think th ideas for getting blueprint bonuses might be a little to much, since unlocking new ships should be a challenge, and your idea pretty much makes it a cakewalk, keep the reward to data and recources and u'll be fine.

One could even think up some Gear-specific missions when u get certain tech, like using the suicide cannon to board a ship and then escort it out of the mission area :)

the possabilites are endless!


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Sat 17 Dec, 2011 11:43 pm 
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Shortbus

Joined: Sat 17 Dec, 2011 7:17 am
Posts: 4
Quote:
But i think th ideas for getting blueprint bonuses might be a little to much, since unlocking new ships should be a challenge, and your idea pretty much makes it a cakewalk, keep the reward to data and recources and u'll be fine.

I see your point about how unlocking new ships is supposed to be a challenge and if someone just used suicide cannons and grunt shuttles as soon as new ships became available it would make getting blueprint data to easy. My thinking was that since you managed to capture a ship intact then you could get a 2x blueprint bonus for having a whole ship to study instead of just wreckage. Would it make more sense to have this as an unlockable perk through research so as too make it more likely to be used against large and huge ships later in the game?


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Sun 18 Dec, 2011 5:05 pm 
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Ranger
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Joined: Thu 24 Nov, 2011 10:14 pm
Posts: 328
Location: Weert, the Netherlands.
AdmiralB wrote:
I see your point about how unlocking new ships is supposed to be a challenge and if someone just used suicide cannons and grunt shuttles as soon as new ships became available it would make getting blueprint data to easy. My thinking was that since you managed to capture a ship intact then you could get a 2x blueprint bonus for having a whole ship to study instead of just wreckage. Would it make more sense to have this as an unlockable perk through research so as too make it more likely to be used against large and huge ships later in the game?


As Perk in the crew tree(say lvl 8) would be much better instead of having it from the start.
And while i get that u think that capturing a ship should give u faster blueprint access, keep in mind that the game also needs to keep its balance, and the 2x bonus would be to much.

Maybe they can think up some new missions that give blueprints as rewards instead of a specialist, at least then u get some without blowing everything up the whole time.


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Sat 31 Dec, 2011 2:08 pm 
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Shortbus

Joined: Sun 18 Dec, 2011 8:41 pm
Posts: 9
I still have a couple of questions about the shuttles. First, do the shields have to be down before launching them at a ship? And how do we know the status of the party?


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Sat 31 Dec, 2011 5:27 pm 
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Hound
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Joined: Fri 25 Feb, 2011 3:21 am
Posts: 1998
No, shields don't have to be down. You can see the status of your party by locking on the enemy ship. You can see an indicator of your on board crew, vs their crew.


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Mon 02 Jan, 2012 3:20 am 
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Scout

Joined: Sun 01 Jan, 2012 3:58 pm
Posts: 33
The suicide cannon item says that they will steal ship blackboxes, data, etc. How does that work? Destroying a ship that you don't know will already drop a blackbox, so will using marines give you "additional blackbox"?


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Mon 02 Jan, 2012 3:32 am 
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Turtle head
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Joined: Tue 09 Aug, 2011 5:35 am
Posts: 414
Once on-board an enemy ship, your goons have a chance of uploading those things to you during combat. If they get a blackbox, then yes, you'll still get a blackbox from its wreckage, meaning two out of just one ship.

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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Mon 02 Jan, 2012 6:14 am 
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Scout

Joined: Sun 01 Jan, 2012 3:58 pm
Posts: 33
Kloreep wrote:
Once on-board an enemy ship, your goons have a chance of uploading those things to you during combat. If they get a blackbox, then yes, you'll still get a blackbox from its wreckage, meaning two out of just one ship.


Thanks for the info. How do you steal blueprints?

Can you steal it from random ships? Or do you have to send your goons to a station that sells the blueprint?


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Mon 02 Jan, 2012 9:42 am 
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Turtle head
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Joined: Tue 09 Aug, 2011 5:35 am
Posts: 414
It can be from a ship, it doesn't have to be a station.

What I'm not clear on, myself, is whether you can only steal blueprints for modules the boarded ship/station happens to have equipped, or if the pool of possible blueprints is broader than that.

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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Mon 02 Jan, 2012 3:20 pm 
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Dart

Joined: Mon 02 Jan, 2012 12:29 pm
Posts: 10
Kloreep wrote:
What I'm not clear on, myself, is whether you can only steal blueprints for modules the boarded ship/station happens to have equipped, or if the pool of possible blueprints is broader than that.

For me it wasn't even clear if you could steal the blueprints of equipment they where using. By the time I could use these weapons effectively (I was not running into big busses, latest large hull to unlock) I was already blowing up stations to get the goodies from them.

I love the idea tough. But the current implementation seems a bit random, I tried to use the gun once, buy the effect was only that I lost all my crew. It would be nice if you could see if a ship has tech you don't have yet.

I do like how the game lets you be a total bad mofo. Blowing up stations from people that used to call you friends, ejecting people into space, stealing stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Tue 03 Jan, 2012 10:42 pm 
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Dart

Joined: Tue 03 Jan, 2012 10:01 pm
Posts: 15
I would actually like to have a new UI of a ships lay out, and you can zoom in on a ship with enemies in it, like zombies invading your ship, and you can control your men to try to fight back the zombies effectively. while this is happening you can switch between the space to the ship, redirect them and tell them who to shoot, and switch back to fight other ships. Along with this maybe there could be points of interest on the ship layout for where research is so you can see where to plunder, or the controls and fly the ship itself until it breaks down.


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Wed 04 Jan, 2012 8:56 pm 
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Shortbus

Joined: Wed 04 Jan, 2012 8:42 pm
Posts: 7
I personally had no issues with the Suicide Cannon - I liked the way it worked and didn't mind the cost. My feeling on them is that you can really turn a big ship into a big pinata, and that's a good thing.

That said, for me it was a niche weapon. I really only used it to increase the blackbox drop rates, and had to train my Crew skill to 6 to get a good (200%) hacking bonus before anything useful started dropping. I would clear the battlefield (generally a Gate capture) and single out a Huge ship I didn't have access to yet. From there I'd pump it full of my Goons - sometimes as many as 200 of them in order to beat down the crew - using "Repair" to restock my Yacht or Big Bus. Once the ship was dying, it'll start spraying out data, rez, and a blackbox if it can. I'd just follow it around and gobble up everything it dropped. I also seemed to find a much higher number of Specialists from these wrecks.

Suicide Cannons do have a useful lifespan, though - like any gun does. I stopped using them once I had access to every ship. Goons as a resource are more valuable to me than the data and rez you can get by expending them (especially in Chapter 4).

Knowing what I do now, I'll certainly be using the Suicide Cannon on my 2nd playthrough, and I'll be using it earlier than before if I can. I've never really run out of Goons and don't mind taking a few minutes to harvest more. All of my ships are constantly picking up escape pods and leaving them with the Clockwork.


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Thu 05 Jan, 2012 12:55 am 
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Turtle head
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Joined: Tue 09 Aug, 2011 5:35 am
Posts: 414
I suppose I haven't used it enough to be able to comment on the balance. Given the potential rewards, perhaps the goon cost is worth it.

I definitely will continue to gripe about the randomness of SC availability, though. In two games I've started and abandoned trying to try the Crew tech again, I've found myself exploring a good chunk of the outer ring and getting a lot of black boxes and blueprints without ever being able to complete a Suicide Cannon blueprint. It's not much of a backup blueprint acquisition scheme if its own blueprint is so hard to find. :/

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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Thu 12 Jan, 2012 10:03 am 
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Dart

Joined: Thu 12 Jan, 2012 9:53 am
Posts: 17
A'la 'Masters of Orion II' boarding parties should switch the alliance of the captured vessel to 'friendly' and release it to AI control. Crew would stay aboard meaning suicide shuttle ships would have to resupply by some mechanic.

After the battle any surviving ships would then warp to the mothership to be broken down into resources. Crew would be reallocated to the grunt pool.


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Wed 11 Jul, 2012 4:27 am 
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Shortbus

Joined: Wed 11 Jul, 2012 4:17 am
Posts: 3
The crew tech tree is a good one, but both of those "weapons" are so beyond suboptimal, the only uses I see for them would be if we could actually capture ships we can't currently build and have an empty hangar to store them in, or story missions that required boarding parties. Otherwise, you can skip those two techs altogether.



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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Thu 12 Jul, 2012 1:33 pm 
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Dart

Joined: Thu 12 Jan, 2012 9:53 am
Posts: 17
There needs to be a function that has enemy ships become 'allied' once their crew are eliminated.
At the end of the encounter remaining crew return to your grunt pool and 25-50% of the captured ship's 'build cost' is credited to your Rez pool. Hull tech is also recovered, and a small chance that other un-acquired tech is stolen as well.


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Sat 28 Dec, 2013 11:09 pm 
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Gyro
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Joined: Thu 01 Dec, 2011 3:53 am
Posts: 102
In before: Necro, don't care, this was the first Google search result. Do you want search to be effective or do you want people to make posts about faq questions over and over because anti-necro policy made search needle-haystack worthless?

Anyway: I agree with skunkbutt, the whole boarding party thing needs to be a capture tool not uber expensive poison.

I can confirm that the pool is wider than equip or owned technology. I used a suicide cannon to make the uta in sol spit out a heavy armor blueprint. They were not using nor selling this item.

Since there will never be another update obviously our only hope is a mod. As it stands, the crew attack weapons are worthless. Way too stingy with blueprints, it doesn't actually capture, its way too expensive and as a weapon it's radically under powered.

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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Sun 29 Dec, 2013 9:28 am 
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Tug

Joined: Fri 26 Oct, 2012 11:55 am
Posts: 506
A mod where the weapon is more worth it is FFU (at least in the fact that you allways have goons to spare). But only Zombies can capture ships. (though you do have the Zombification beam in FFU)
Maybe in SPAZ 2 it will be a lot better and worth it. (maybe even if our tech is higher than that star system's when we lose ships/they board us, they get points in techs and thus getting better equipment/higher bonuses)


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Sat 18 Oct, 2014 5:06 pm 
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Shortbus
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Joined: Thu 16 Oct, 2014 11:33 pm
Posts: 8
Hey Hey! DON'T FORGET!!! If you send Marines on-board with the Grunt Shuttle or the Suicide Cannon, they steal the data, Rez, and throw them out for your tractor beams to take. ALSO, THE BEST PART IS that if they have weapons, armor, boosters, etc. that you didn't already reverse-engineer, THE MARINES HACK INTO THEIR COMPUTERS AND GIVE YOU FREE BLUEPRINTS!!! Hope that helped!


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 Post subject: Re: Suicide Cannon, What The Heck Does It Do?
PostPosted: Thu 30 Apr, 2015 6:55 am 
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Shortbus

Joined: Mon 13 Apr, 2015 9:38 am
Posts: 8
Innomen wrote:

I can confirm that the pool is wider than equip or owned technology. I used a suicide cannon to make the uta in sol spit out a heavy armor blueprint. They were not using nor selling this item.




Was this from a UTA ship or space station?


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