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 Post subject: 19 ships from GSB [V2]
PostPosted: Tue 08 Oct, 2013 10:34 am 
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Dart
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Adds 19 ships from Gratuitous Space Battles:

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UPDATE!

Uploaded a new version! V2 adds these features:

    *All the 19 hulls can have breaches now.
    *The Duwasir was recolored to blue.
    *The Harmony's turret was relocated to the front of the ship
    *8 components forming a new tier of unlocks for the main tech trees (Engines, Reactors, Shields, Cloaks, Armor, Cannons, Beams and Missiles). They have their own unique display images and everything!


Attachments:
19 GSB Ships.part1.rar [5 MiB]
Downloaded 6533 times
19 GSB Ships.part2.rar [1.06 MiB]
Downloaded 6419 times

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Last edited by aerogen on Mon 21 Oct, 2013 5:44 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: 4 ships from GSB (Sunset, Wolf, Baggara and Plasmodium)
PostPosted: Tue 08 Oct, 2013 11:07 am 
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Did you pull across the ship sprites directly? Or did you have to do some fiddling, or remake them entirely?

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 Post subject: Re: 4 ships from GSB (Sunset, Wolf, Baggara and Plasmodium)
PostPosted: Tue 08 Oct, 2013 11:49 am 
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EvilNinja wrote:
Did you pull across the ship sprites directly? Or did you have to do some fiddling, or remake them entirely?


There was some minor fiddling, such as with the Sunset where I had to "fog" the image because it was too high-res for such a small ship and that was causing too much aliasing.

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 Post subject: Re: 4 ships from GSB (Sunset, Wolf, Baggara and Plasmodium)
PostPosted: Tue 08 Oct, 2013 12:13 pm 
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aerogen wrote:
EvilNinja wrote:
Did you pull across the ship sprites directly? Or did you have to do some fiddling, or remake them entirely?


There was some minor fiddling, such as with the Sunset where I had to "fog" the image because it was too high-res for such a small ship and that was causing too much aliasing.
A rare problem, eh?
Not that I understand much of how this works other than what you've told me; I was just curious.

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 Post subject: Re: 4 ships from GSB (Sunset, Wolf, Baggara and Plasmodium)
PostPosted: Tue 08 Oct, 2013 12:22 pm 
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Just remembered: I also had to convert the image file format from dds to png, I used this Gimp plugin for that;
http://registry.gimp.org/node/70

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 Post subject: Re: 4 ships from GSB (Sunset, Wolf, Baggara and Plasmodium)
PostPosted: Tue 08 Oct, 2013 9:41 pm 
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Those ships look like they get a lot of weapon/utility mounts.


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 Post subject: Re: 4 ships from GSB (Sunset, Wolf, Baggara and Plasmodium)
PostPosted: Wed 09 Oct, 2013 2:12 pm 
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Dart
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Palandus wrote:
Those ships look like they get a lot of weapon/utility mounts.


Yup. I like them crowded. :lol:

The Sunset and the Plasmodium are still weaker than the Colt/Cyclops and the Manta Ray, though.

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 Post subject: Re: 4 ships from GSB (Sunset, Wolf, Baggara and Plasmodium)
PostPosted: Fri 11 Oct, 2013 4:07 am 
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Shortbus

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I don't really think that 12 large shooters (2 more than the manta ray) and then way more then enough mounts to boost them to crazy levels can really be said to be "weaker" than the manta ray (remember the effects of fixed turret mounts and also remember that all slots can fit boosters). Similar crazy balance issues exist with all of the ships. 8 large launchers plus some shooters and a bunch of utility slots is stupidly powerful for a large ship, 2 large shooters, 2 mediums and a whopping 5 small (AND a drone bay, AND 2 huge utility slots AND 6 medium launchers) is ridiculous for a medium ship, and 2 medium shooters plus 6 small launchers is crazy for a small ship (to be fair, the last two ships have rearward pointing weapon mounts, so they're not quite as crazy as they could be). To be fair, there will be reactor issues with the number of shooters on these things, but they just don't compensate enough. The thing you have to remember is that each weapon is 50% more powerful than the next size down. So a large shooter is 50% more powerful than a medium. This means that two mediums will be 33% more powerful than a single large. Hence why having a lot of slots (even if they are for small weapons) can make things brokenly powerful.

My suggestions to balance them (note that all balancing is worked out based on the bounty hunter ships, so these will still be extremely powerful ships):
Sunset:
Drop the shooters to small and drop two of the launchers. Rearward facing on the launchers helps balance their numbers somewhat as it makes it hard to use the really heavy hitting launcher weapons. Definitely give it the same sort of maneuvering/mass as the cyclops though, to balance out the high firepower. With these changes it becomes a pretty high firepower but not crazy high firepower small ship.

Wolf:
Drop the large shooters to mediums and remove all 5 of the smalls. For the launchers, you should either point them forward but change it to only two medium launchers, or keep it at 4 small launchers pointing backwards. The utilities should be dropped down to mediums or smalls (oversized boosters provide much higher boost). With these changes the ship becomes a more durable and higher firepower hydra but slower and less maneuverable.

Baggara:
8 large launchers is a crazy amount of missile firepower. The equivalent firepower of 5 and a third huge launchers is just way too much. I'd drop it to 4 medium and 4 small which is still a very healthy amount of missile power. The shooters should probably drop to either 3 mediums and 2 smalls or 4 mediums and 1 small. I'd also just remove all of the medium utility slots. With these changes the ship has roughly the same amount of potential missile damage as the pelican, but with a more durable/strangely maneuvering shell (very low mass and turn speed will definitely be unique).

Plasmodium:
This ship should definitely either have its medium turrets changed to smalls or lose about 3 of the turrets entirely. The huge turret is ok. The medium launcher slots probably need to be dropped entirely, and the larger slots should all move a size down (giving 2 mediums and a large). Finally the 4 large utility slots need to go too. With these changes the ship gets 9 large shooters worth of firepower (3 from the huge turret, 1 per medium turret with fixed turret mount) and a nice mix of slots for launchers for things like gravity missiles, which will allow it to be more flexible than the manta ray, which nicely compensates for it's slightly lower raw firepower.


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 Post subject: Re: 4 ships from GSB (Sunset, Wolf, Baggara and Plasmodium)
PostPosted: Fri 11 Oct, 2013 12:58 pm 
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Dart
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Beldantazar wrote:
I don't really think that 12 large shooters (2 more than the manta ray) and then way more then enough mounts to boost them to crazy levels can really be said to be "weaker" than the manta ray (remember the effects of fixed turret mounts and also remember that all slots can fit boosters). Similar crazy balance issues exist with all of the ships. 8 large launchers plus some shooters and a bunch of utility slots is stupidly powerful for a large ship, 2 large shooters, 2 mediums and a whopping 5 small (AND a drone bay, AND 2 huge utility slots AND 6 medium launchers) is ridiculous for a medium ship, and 2 medium shooters plus 6 small launchers is crazy for a small ship (to be fair, the last two ships have rearward pointing weapon mounts, so they're not quite as crazy as they could be). To be fair, there will be reactor issues with the number of shooters on these things, but they just don't compensate enough. The thing you have to remember is that each weapon is 50% more powerful than the next size down. So a large shooter is 50% more powerful than a medium. This means that two mediums will be 33% more powerful than a single large. Hence why having a lot of slots (even if they are for small weapons) can make things brokenly powerful.

My suggestions to balance them (note that all balancing is worked out based on the bounty hunter ships, so these will still be extremely powerful ships):
Sunset:
Drop the shooters to small and drop two of the launchers. Rearward facing on the launchers helps balance their numbers somewhat as it makes it hard to use the really heavy hitting launcher weapons. Definitely give it the same sort of maneuvering/mass as the cyclops though, to balance out the high firepower. With these changes it becomes a pretty high firepower but not crazy high firepower small ship.

Wolf:
Drop the large shooters to mediums and remove all 5 of the smalls. For the launchers, you should either point them forward but change it to only two medium launchers, or keep it at 4 small launchers pointing backwards. The utilities should be dropped down to mediums or smalls (oversized boosters provide much higher boost). With these changes the ship becomes a more durable and higher firepower hydra but slower and less maneuverable.

Baggara:
8 large launchers is a crazy amount of missile firepower. The equivalent firepower of 5 and a third huge launchers is just way too much. I'd drop it to 4 medium and 4 small which is still a very healthy amount of missile power. The shooters should probably drop to either 3 mediums and 2 smalls or 4 mediums and 1 small. I'd also just remove all of the medium utility slots. With these changes the ship has roughly the same amount of potential missile damage as the pelican, but with a more durable/strangely maneuvering shell (very low mass and turn speed will definitely be unique).

Plasmodium:
This ship should definitely either have its medium turrets changed to smalls or lose about 3 of the turrets entirely. The huge turret is ok. The medium launcher slots probably need to be dropped entirely, and the larger slots should all move a size down (giving 2 mediums and a large). Finally the 4 large utility slots need to go too. With these changes the ship gets 9 large shooters worth of firepower (3 from the huge turret, 1 per medium turret with fixed turret mount) and a nice mix of slots for launchers for things like gravity missiles, which will allow it to be more flexible than the manta ray, which nicely compensates for it's slightly lower raw firepower.


You're right. Now that I have been playing a little further in the campaign I really notice that it really is broken in that sense. I actually was aiming for something unbalanced, but not that much. Even a small squad of Sunsets will easily kill a large ship because of the immense missile swarm effect they can achieve together and the Wolf has so many shooter mounts that it can't power them for more than a single shot. I do also agree that the Baggara is overkill with all the missiles and utility mounts. I don't fully agree on the Plamodium not being weaker than the Manta Ray, though, 9 medium turrets spread all over can't really compare to a single frontal row of 9 large mounts plus the Manta has 5 huge utility mounts and that's far more powerful than the Plasmodium's 4 medium and 4 large mounts, if anything; maybe the torpedo mounts can make the difference, but since I tend not to invest on the launcher tech tree I placed them in there thinking they would be just ornamental.

Keep in mind that I wasn't really aiming to make a balanced mod, thus the increased hangars; in fact, you might have noticed that I even forgot to set the REZ cost for the ships. Still, since there may be people who want to play a balanced version I might take the time to make the changes you suggested. So I think you will see a update in the weekend with a non-broken version and some new ships added in. ;)

And thanks for the tips. :)

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 Post subject: Re: 4 ships from GSB (Sunset, Wolf, Baggara and Plasmodium)
PostPosted: Sat 12 Oct, 2013 4:58 am 
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Joined: Fri 11 Oct, 2013 3:34 am
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Medium turrets can be turned into large shooters by using fixed turret mounts, and huge turrets can be turned into 3 large shooters with triple turret mounts, hence why i mentioned 12 large shooters for the plasmodium. Also, you've currently got the plasmodium with 4 huge and 4 large utility slots (although that might have been an error).


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 Post subject: Re: 19 ships from GSB
PostPosted: Tue 15 Oct, 2013 6:07 pm 
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Shortbus

Joined: Tue 15 Oct, 2013 6:05 pm
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I've downloaded the mod and its nice. However when is start a new game I only 4 new ships, do the other ones unlock later? I am now in the game at the second stage and I've not gained any of the other new ships.

tx


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 Post subject: Re: 19 ships from GSB
PostPosted: Tue 15 Oct, 2013 6:57 pm 
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Dart
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martinw wrote:
I've downloaded the mod and its nice. However when is start a new game I only 4 new ships, do the other ones unlock later? I am now in the game at the second stage and I've not gained any of the other new ships.

tx


Just checked and I'm positive the one that i uploaded yesterday has 19 ships in it. Maybe you've downloaded the old one that was there last week. Try to download again and make sure to select the right mod (should be named "19 GSB ships") and start a new game to see if they show up.

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 Post subject: Re: 19 ships from GSB
PostPosted: Tue 15 Oct, 2013 7:01 pm 
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Shortbus

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Yes i have the old version, the one with 18 new ships. I take it that version should normally work but all i see are 4 new ships in stead of 18. with my comp bugging the fuck out at the moment im afraid of extracting new files xD


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 Post subject: Re: 19 ships from GSB
PostPosted: Tue 15 Oct, 2013 7:13 pm 
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martinw wrote:
Yes i have the old version, the one with 18 new ships. I take it that version should normally work but all i see are 4 new ships in stead of 18. with my comp bugging the fuck out at the moment im afraid of extracting new files xD


Did you download from the Filedropper link? Because before my yesterday edit the file that was in the attachment was still the 4 ships one.

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 Post subject: Re: 19 ships from GSB
PostPosted: Tue 15 Oct, 2013 8:27 pm 
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Shortbus

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Alright, got it now. Removed the old and got the new. tx great mod


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 Post subject: Re: 19 ships from GSB
PostPosted: Thu 17 Oct, 2013 8:24 pm 
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Shortbus

Joined: Thu 17 Oct, 2013 7:28 pm
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I downloaded the mod and launched the game but when i tried selecting one of the ships it says 100% but i can´t use it!
Is it a Bug??


Attachments:
File comment: seriously!!
2013-10-17_00001.jpg [207.99 KiB]
Not downloaded yet
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 Post subject: Re: 19 ships from GSB
PostPosted: Thu 17 Oct, 2013 9:55 pm 
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Joined: Fri 26 Oct, 2012 11:55 am
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Did you start a new game?
Make sure the game isn't in Program Files.


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 Post subject: Re: 19 ships from GSB [V2]
PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov, 2013 6:16 am 
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Developer
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Hi Guys,

Its been a while since I logged in. I have been working pretty crazy on SPAZ 2 while Richard(Narlak) mans the fort here, but I just noticed this mod, and I am a bit concerned since is seems these ships come from GSB. I don't think we can host this file without Cliff Harris' blessing (Positech Games). I am going to email Cliff Harris and see what he thinks. I will point him to this thread and we will have to abide by his decision since in the end the art is his and we don't want to step on his toes.


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 Post subject: Re: 19 ships from GSB [V2]
PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov, 2013 7:40 am 
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HOLY CRAP IN A FLAMING BARREL!

HE LIVES! BLORFY IS STILL WITH US!


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 Post subject: Re: 19 ships from GSB [V2]
PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov, 2013 8:50 am 
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Palandus wrote:
HOLY CRAP IN A FLAMING BARREL!

HE LIVES! BLORFY IS STILL WITH US!
"A response in a thread! It's 50% a bot post! But wait! It's not a bot! Or is it!"

An interesting decision. I had not thought about it enough previously, but I'm sure I would have come to the same conclusion. I will hope that he's still active right now and that you get your response soon, Blorfy!

And, to the author of this mod: Sorry man, I hope you don't mind, but copyright is serious business and people can get upset or offended when stuff like this happens. I hope you can live with whatever comes out of this. :(

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 Post subject: Re: 19 ships from GSB [V2]
PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov, 2013 2:26 pm 
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EvilNinja wrote:
And, to the author of this mod: Sorry man, I hope you don't mind, but copyright is serious business and people can get upset or offended when stuff like this happens. I hope you can live with whatever comes out of this. :(


I guess that if the GSB author decision is negative, a requirement for this mods survival should be to alter the sprites enough to make them LESS GSB and more "inspired by" GSB.

This is an interesting mod though, as it's one of the very few mods that add a lot of new ships to all the hull category's.
(If I'm correct only FFU also adds a comparable amount of new ships to SPAZ)

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 Post subject: Re: 19 ships from GSB [V2]
PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov, 2013 6:09 pm 
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Tug

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There is the Anachronism Mod (Visual & gameplay mod). But i'm not sure if that counts as new ships.


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 Post subject: Re: 19 ships from GSB [V2]
PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov, 2013 7:14 pm 
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Blorfy wrote:
Hi Guys,

Its been a while since I logged in. I have been working pretty crazy on SPAZ 2 while Richard(Narlak) mans the fort here, but I just noticed this mod, and I am a bit concerned since is seems these ships come from GSB. I don't think we can host this file without Cliff Harris' blessing (Positech Games). I am going to email Cliff Harris and see what he thinks. I will point him to this thread and we will have to abide by his decision since in the end the art is his and we don't want to step on his toes.


I understand.

I'm hopeful that he will be cool with the mod though since it is rather harmless and, if anything, just shows out that GSB has great sprite art (and prolific too, given that I used less than 10 percent of all the ship sprites available in the game, without even having all the DLC). :D

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 Post subject: Re: 19 ships from GSB [V2]
PostPosted: Sun 03 Nov, 2013 9:15 pm 
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Hi Guys,

I got mailed back from Cliff and he is ok with it, so the mod can stay!

Also, hopefully when we show some of what we have been doing on SPAZ 2 you guys will understand my absence here lately. :)


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 Post subject: Re: 19 ships from GSB [V2]
PostPosted: Mon 04 Nov, 2013 12:27 am 
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Oh, we understand all right. We're merely experts at containing our impatience. ;)

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