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 Post subject: Re: ArcaTech Armoury & Munitions [R3 Out!]
PostPosted: Wed 16 May, 2012 5:21 am 
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No Nova Torpedoes yet, but this does add;

Plasma Cannons (All Shooter Mounts)
Deflector Shields (All Hulls)
Phased Shields (All Hulls)
Hypercharge Reactors (Large/Huge only)

I've also disabled the seventh and eighth hangars for now.


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File comment: Shinier things!
ArcXera_R3.zip [1.28 MiB]
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 Post subject: Nuts
PostPosted: Wed 16 May, 2012 6:20 pm 
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Well nuts. I guess I should read mod lists before starting to make one :P. I was (and am) making experimental (high power, cool looking but high power consumption etc) weapons, and then I found this :D. Great mod you have there, and will try it out at some point.

One question. How did you manage to add your weapons to that list which shows all locked and unlocked weapons? I have added my weapons to tutorialDatablocks_components file (and to research one), but can't find them from stores (tried to make new saves) nor from that list. Do I need to change something in another file or?

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 Post subject: Re: ArcaTech Armoury & Munitions [R3 Out!]
PostPosted: Wed 16 May, 2012 6:40 pm 
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You need to have a Large variant of something for it to appear on the list, I believe. As long as you have that, plus tutorialDatablocks and Research Datablocks set up, you should be fine.

If not, I have no idea really. It's a finicky system.

------------

As for shieldskipping weaponry; not right now. Maybe once the proper code is implemented, if Blorfy actually does it.

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 Post subject: Re: ArcaTech Armoury & Munitions [R3 Out!]
PostPosted: Wed 16 May, 2012 7:35 pm 
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This isn't a Star Trek mod, for starters. Even if it was, I'm not sure the missile system is really set up to support energy 'missiles'.

Missiles are already very capable against Hull, as I've said before the Missiles tree is currently overloaded, and I have my own conventional missile plans.

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 Post subject: Re: ArcaTech Armoury & Munitions [R3 Out!]
PostPosted: Wed 16 May, 2012 10:03 pm 
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Arcalane wrote:
This isn't a Star Trek mod, for starters. Even if it was, I'm not sure the missile system is really set up to support energy 'missiles'.

Missiles are already very capable against Hull, as I've said before the Missiles tree is currently overloaded, and I have my own conventional missile plans.


i love how this ISNT a star trek mod... i hope you will keep it that way.

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 Post subject: Re: ArcaTech Armoury & Munitions [R3 Out!]
PostPosted: Wed 16 May, 2012 11:33 pm 
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Gah you released an update as soon as I stopped checking constantly. I hate you.


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 Post subject: Re: ArcaTech Armoury & Munitions [R3 Out!]
PostPosted: Thu 17 May, 2012 2:15 am 
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the new cannons are quite underpowered, i can get a higher DPS with a particle cannon.

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 Post subject: Re: ArcaTech Armoury & Munitions [R3 Out!]
PostPosted: Thu 17 May, 2012 2:48 am 
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Or maybe Particle Cannons are just (still) overpowered. ;)

If Plasmas were any better it'd just be silly. They outrange most other cannons, have a lower chance of being deflected than any other cannon (25% vs 50% or the Mass Driver's 100%), have very respectable travel times for their range, and good per-hit damage, plus they use the Universal type much like Particle Cannons do.

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 Post subject: Re: ArcaTech Armoury & Munitions [R3 Out!]
PostPosted: Thu 17 May, 2012 6:21 am 
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There are statistics for cannon deflection? Could you publish more of them, or alternatively point me in the direction where I can find them?

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 Post subject: Re: ArcaTech Armoury & Munitions [R3 Out!]
PostPosted: Thu 17 May, 2012 3:43 pm 
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ok, i wil atempt to get a higher DPS with a different cannon then. possibly, just lower the plasma's reload rate by 15%, and it would be fine, as far as im concerned. the problem is that shields and sometimes hull can regen before you can fire another salvo.

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 Post subject: Re: ArcaTech Armoury & Munitions [R3 Out!]
PostPosted: Thu 17 May, 2012 4:16 pm 
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EvilNinja wrote:
There are statistics for cannon deflection? Could you publish more of them, or alternatively point me in the direction where I can find them?


They're right there.

Plasma Cannons have a 25% chance of deflection.
Mass Drivers have a 100% chance of deflection. This means they deflect off shields regardless of impact angle.
Everything else - Disruptors, Particles, EBCs, etc. - has a 50% chance of deflection.

Anything less than 100% and more than 0% is modified by the angle of impact - low-angle hits are more likely to deflect than high-angle ones.

-------------------------------

Flypaste wrote:
ok, i wil atempt to get a higher DPS with a different cannon then. possibly, just lower the plasma's reload rate by 15%, and it would be fine, as far as im concerned. the problem is that shields and sometimes hull can regen before you can fire another salvo.


Cannons 10 + a Huge Cannon Booster and six Large Plasma Cannons on the Citadel's Turrets argue otherwise. Same goes for my Plasma-spam Crawler.

They're not meant to be the ultimate kill-everything-by-themselves weapon, they're just very powerful and best paired with a Beam or three.

Gonna test out tweaks to the damage type, anyhow...

Ed: Changing them to Armour Piercing (without the exit-effect) like a Mass Driver, whilst fun, just makes them cheesy and feels slightly counterintuitive/arbitrary.

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 Post subject: Re: ArcaTech Armoury & Munitions [R3 Out!]
PostPosted: Thu 17 May, 2012 6:29 pm 
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Arcalane wrote:
Plasma Cannons have a 25% chance of deflection.
Mass Drivers have a 100% chance of deflection. This means they deflect off shields regardless of impact angle.
Everything else - Disruptors, Particles, EBCs, etc. - has a 50% chance of deflection.

Anything less than 100% and more than 0% is modified by the angle of impact - low-angle hits are more likely to deflect than high-angle ones.


I have noticed the Bouncing Projectiles, and thought it an awesome mechanic to implement, completely subverting standard hitbox mechanics and making the game feel so much more realistic. I just wanted to know if there is anything else I needed to know on the topic, in addition to what you already said.\

But I really do love it every time it happens. Actually destroyed a cloaked tiny Hull with a group of projectiles reflected off a Huge Shield. It was incredibly satisfying.

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 Post subject: Re: ArcaTech Armoury & Munitions [R3 Out!]
PostPosted: Fri 18 May, 2012 8:17 am 
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As a quick note, I'm destroying pretty much everything using the following primary ship setup:

Mammoth Hull
Overcharge (don't even need to bother with Hypercharge) Reactor
Triple Mount main turret with Large Goliath Beams
Two Large Turrets equipped with Goliath Beams
Two Medium Turrets equipped with Leeches
Beam Booster in all other slots

Anything that doesn't die in a few seconds of Goliath fire is big enough that my Leeches can drain a worthwhile amount of energy from it, thus allowing me to maintain the blast until the target is dead. While I know using the Goliath Beam in the first place is my own decision, I just thought I'd mention this as a potentially game-breaking setup even for someone who doesn't "cheat" with the Citadel. It's a shame you can't hard-code a limit on specific weapons on a single ship (my base-killer is a Manta with all weapon slots loaded with Goliaths and a Hypercharge Reactor, with the assistance of my AI companions we can destroy a BH base in maybe 15-20 seconds. Again, it is my fault for choosing to make such a setup, but if the game only let me use two Goliaths on a single ship or something, it would discourage me sticking it on pretty much every slot). Maybe make it limited to Huge Turrets (or Large with a fixed turret mod to make the slot Huge)? It'd make more sense lore-wise, and answer the balance problem you're still ironing out.

EDIT: It strikes me that, overall, the Goliath Beam is just an outright unbalanced weapon; if that was your only intention, to have it as a for-fun weapon, then obviously I'm just willfully ignorant of the fact. If it is a "lol let's stick a mothership weapon on our ship for fun" part of the mod, then forgive me for putting so much thought into it.


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 Post subject: Re: ArcaTech Armoury & Munitions [R3 Out!]
PostPosted: Fri 18 May, 2012 4:09 pm 
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Think of the Goliath Beam as an additional reward for reaching Beams 10. I mean, of course it's going to be powerful, because the moment you get it it's benefiting from your entire Beams techline with no real means of comparing it to earlier tech levels.

I do probably need to crank up the power consumption though. Reactors have a far larger impact than I thought.

As for the Citadel, I'd say it's... not really unbalanced, to be honest. The stats are pretty average, so it doesn't have a fantastic hull strength or crew count, it doesn't zip around like crazy (nor is it horribly slow) and the cargo capacity is pretty average too. The Utility slots make it very boostable and versatile, and that's about it.

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 Post subject: Re: ArcaTech Armoury & Munitions [R3 Out!]
PostPosted: Fri 18 May, 2012 10:00 pm 
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DestinyAtlantis wrote:
That is why i gave the idea of Hypercharge reactor, the only reactor capable of supporting the Goliath Beam for a good amount of time(even with reactor tech level 10).
Let's say we can use 1 Large or Huge Goliath Beam for 10 sec(Beam and Reactor tech level 10) with overcharge or something like that.
So to have several Goliath Beams you are forced to use Hypercharge reactor which slows down speed and turn rate.
But another way for limiting the use of Goliath Beams is making them Non-turret only.

non turret? that, and, no large mounts. that would be awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: It was good
PostPosted: Fri 18 May, 2012 10:17 pm 
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This looks good... I am going to try it out. Can you edit the first post with the current version of your download so that people don't have to scan the entire thread for the latest version of the download?

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Last edited by ViroMan on Fri 15 Jun, 2012 3:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: ArcaTech Armoury & Munitions [R3 Out!]
PostPosted: Sat 19 May, 2012 3:17 am 
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Presently, there are two issues with those plans;

1) It's impossible to restrict where a weapon can be installed. Turrets and Fixed Shooters both use Shooter linktypes with no difference whatsoever. Maybe once linktypes and where weapons can be installed are unlinked.
2) If a weapon has no Large version, it won't appear on the Module Database in the Hangar. The Triple Turret is a notable exception with special-case hardcoding. Also I want there to be a Large version of the Goliath.

Still, I've massively increased the power consumption of Goliath Beams, to the point that even a Hypercharge should have trouble running more than one of them. I've also made them more expensive, so that, say, losing a fully-rigged Manta is really going to hurt your wallet, even more than losing a tricked-out Huge normally does.

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 Post subject: Re: ArcaTech Armoury & Munitions [R3 Out!]
PostPosted: Sat 19 May, 2012 5:55 am 
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Comments:
* So I tried it out and it plays great so far...
* I can't wait till I get a sun spot so I can shove another bomber drone port on it and be a drone overlord.

Questions:
* Are the enemy allowed to use the new turrets? So far I have not seen any use anything other then standard turrets.
* Is it possible to make small drone bays that control 2-4 drones?

Observations:
* I have the nova torpedoes available right at start and they fit on any missile or turret size even though the description clearly states only large and huge should have them.

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 Post subject: Re: ArcaTech Armoury & Munitions [R3 Out!]
PostPosted: Sat 19 May, 2012 6:05 am 
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ViroMan wrote:
Comments:
* So I tried it out and it plays great so far...
* I can't wait till I get a sun spot so I can shove another bomber drone port on it and be a drone overlord.

Questions:
* Are the enemy allowed to use the new turrets? So far I have not seen any use anything other then standard turrets.
* Is it possible to make small drone bays that control 2-4 drones?


1) No, that requires editing the loadouts, something I haven't experimented with yet - but hopefully will in the future!
2) In theory, yes. That means coding them, and you'd be better served by using a fixed mount with a larger hive anyway. Plus 2-4 drones by themselves would be pretty useless.

-------------------------------

Quote:
Observations:
* I have the nova torpedoes available right at start and they fit on any missile or turret size even though the description clearly states only large and huge should have them.


Observations:
* You are making shit up. I haven't even started coding Nova Torpedoes. You're thinking of Surplus Torpedoes. Trust me, you'll know when you have Nova Torpedoes available. Because they'll be hilariously explosive and more like Freespace 2 Torpedoes/Bombs.

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 Post subject: Re: ArcaTech Armoury & Munitions [R3 Out!]
PostPosted: Sat 19 May, 2012 6:12 am 
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I don't appreciate being told I am making stuff up. Check your latest upload at... viewtopic.php?p=23822#p23822
That is the download I used. If they truly are surplus torpedoes then they have the information overridden with the nova stuff. They may not have the nova effects but, they do have the nova text and spec information. I will re post in a bit with a screen shot.

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 Post subject: Re: ArcaTech Armoury & Munitions [R3 Out!]
PostPosted: Sat 19 May, 2012 6:23 am 
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Oh, I see what's happened here. I made the tutorialblock for the Nova (so I guess I did start coding them, sorta) but that's it. It'll still use the old civ torpedo specs.

You can fix it yourself easily enough - delete the compiled cs.dso, open the uncompiled cs, search for "Nova" to find the tutorialblock I wrote for the Nova, then change;

ScriptGroup (PT_torp_civ : PT_torp)

into

ScriptGroup (PT_torp_nova : PT_torp)

or something. You'd know if it really was a Nova Torpedo because it wouldn't use the Civ green, and it'd use the icon style I put in the OP.

Next time, be a little more descriptive. Don't just say "I have <X>", say "<thing> says I have <X>", okay?

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 Post subject: Re: ArcaTech Armoury & Munitions [R3 Out!]
PostPosted: Sat 19 May, 2012 6:35 am 
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changing the script worked.

Arcalane wrote:
Next time, be a little more descriptive. Don't just say "I have <X>", say "<thing> says I have <X>", okay?

Fair enough but, you should also try to be less aggressive to people.

Also continuing with my small done bay idea... I meant it would be nice to stick on small ships since we have 6 bays... I could put a few drone bays on the smaller ships and give them cloak and no weapons.

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 Post subject: Re: ArcaTech Armoury & Munitions [R3 Out!]
PostPosted: Sat 19 May, 2012 12:55 pm 
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Arcalane wrote:
Observations:
* You are making shit up. I haven't even started coding Nova Torpedoes. You're thinking of Surplus Torpedoes. Trust me, you'll know when you have Nova Torpedoes available. Because they'll be hilariously explosive and more like Freespace 2 Torpedoes/Bombs.


That actually cracked me up :lol:

Good work Arcalane. As a side note I managed to get two blueprints for the goliath beam early on but haven't been able to find the final blueprint ANYWHERE. Have probably explored at least 90% of the 200 star system. I think the game is actually trolling me >.>


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 Post subject: Re: ArcaTech Armoury & Munitions [R3 Out!]
PostPosted: Sat 19 May, 2012 1:08 pm 
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Just standard Destiny. I wanted to check out the new tech >.<


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 Post subject: Re: ArcaTech Armoury & Munitions [R3 Out!]
PostPosted: Sun 20 May, 2012 7:05 pm 
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ViroMan wrote:
changing the script worked.

Arcalane wrote:
Next time, be a little more descriptive. Don't just say "I have <X>", say "<thing> says I have <X>", okay?

Fair enough but, you should also try to be less aggressive to people.


Please learn to tell the difference between;

1) You're full of shit.
and
2) What you're saying is full of shit, and here's why: ...

The subtle difference is that it was not aimed at you, specifically. I think I was understandably in disbelief of your impossible and inaccurately conveyed claims, given my own knowledge.

----------

Moving on; things are a little slow at the moment, since I'm half-waiting for xera to get back, and half out of inspiration to work on things just now. Also I guess half-waiting for a modding tools/kit update so that more things are available to us. That makes three halves but I don't care! 66% more bullet per bullet and all that.

In the meantime, I've halved the mass of Hypercharge Reactors so they're not -quite- so punishing to use, and increased the power consumption of Goliath Beams to 333% (3x standard -> 10x standard) so that ships using them will really feel the drain, even with a reactor boosted Hypercharge.

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