MinMax Spaz

MinMax-Games.com

The water cooler of outer space
  
It is currently Fri 24 Nov, 2017 9:36 pm

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Where did you guys start? C++
PostPosted: Mon 28 Feb, 2011 11:34 am 
Offline
Scout

Joined: Sat 26 Feb, 2011 1:59 am
Posts: 34
Ive been interested in making games for a while, but 3 of my years have been wasted to 3D animation/modeling. What I really want to do is make what ever comes to mind, and you guys are a huge inspiration, lets just say one of my friends will be joining me to a collage just for C++. The problem I'm having is not knowing what to do and where to start. Can you guys just do a small introduction to how you started, did you go with C++, what after? Did you go with your own engine for the game? Do you have any advice were to start. I already tried following a tut on youtube, which suggested to use "Allegro" http://www.allegro.cc/, however that was a bite in the arse because no useful instructions wore up on how to set it up. Anyways, I know this takes years to do and many more to make what you want like a game, but still, I would like to know how you guys started.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Where did you guys start? C++
PostPosted: Mon 28 Feb, 2011 11:46 am 
Offline
Clockwork Personnel
User avatar

Joined: Fri 25 Feb, 2011 7:58 pm
Posts: 432
Location: London, GB
Well perhaps not years but definately takes a lot of time to get to a good standard, especially if you're having difficult grasping the "coding logic": A quick concept i'll run you though.

To become a semi-decent coder you must first understand a sort of logic, a type of universal syntax held by a majority of programming languages, it will help you fix problems and understand what your code is doing and where to go next. Examples of this logic can be found in psuedo code extracts if you're interested in seeing how some exercise their understanding. For instance, a loop is a loop, but in most languages the logic/syntax will always be either a 'For' or a 'While' (commands and actual language syntax aside), which a For will require a start point, an end point and an increment/decrement or a command to alter the "counter" after each tick of the for.

Another example of a piece of logic you will also grasp, which is difficult for most who start is that 1 = 0... in a round about sort of way. In Arrays, counting or any work with numbers out side of pure mathmatics, Zero will always be the first, and can point to something - a non-familiar-to-code person may not understand that 0 in itself is a value and not a null, but on the same turn you must know zero is null in other cases.

This boils down to me recommending that you start on a High-Level language (High being more close to actual english than machine language), such as a scripting type: Python perhaps or Action script. Both are good to start with, then move up to a more game-useful language such as either C++ or Java to start with, as they are both object orientated languages.

EDIT: Not saying Python and Action script are useless at game creation, you can definately start to play around with it but dont have as much of a control over every precise detail however.

But at the end of the day, if you dont have the time or the concentration Visual Basic is a safe bet at instant gratification.

With me so far?

_________________
Here to help
Useful Topics:
The Rules (Updates Frequently)
Bug Submission
Known Bugs (Needs updating)
more as they appear...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Where did you guys start? C++
PostPosted: Mon 28 Feb, 2011 12:36 pm 
Offline
Scout

Joined: Sat 26 Feb, 2011 1:59 am
Posts: 34
Cant use the variable 10 because it already assigned, so you need to go 0,1,3,4, and so forth. I got ya, and ill probably take your advise on Python, and ill take a look at Action scripts as well.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Where did you guys start? C++
PostPosted: Mon 28 Feb, 2011 12:48 pm 
Offline
Clockwork Personnel
User avatar

Joined: Fri 25 Feb, 2011 7:58 pm
Posts: 432
Location: London, GB
Well you can use 10, but not for anything over a bit - but now we're getting into memory management, haha.

Plenty of good tutorials out there for python and actionscripts, probably an idea to hit google with "Python for beginners tutorial" then "Python game tutorial", will most likely produce what you'd like to see. Remember to keep with it, if you need a hand at any point I'm sure either blorg, me or any other coder around here will be able to help you - if not any other language specific website forums! :D

_________________
Here to help
Useful Topics:
The Rules (Updates Frequently)
Bug Submission
Known Bugs (Needs updating)
more as they appear...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Where did you guys start? C++
PostPosted: Mon 28 Feb, 2011 1:21 pm 
Offline
Grasshopper
User avatar

Joined: Sat 26 Feb, 2011 4:10 am
Posts: 72
I find it... Comforting... To observe the viewpoint of a 3d artist wishing he could code. It makes me feel better for being a coder who isn't any good at 2d or 3d art.

As for learning how to write code... There are a couple of concepts I found helpful:
  • Treat programming languages like normal spoken languages. You're not learning some archaic magic, you're simply learning how to communicate in a different language.
  • Your computer is very, very stupid. It will do exactly what you tell it to do. Nothing more and nothing less. It is not capable of understanding when something it is doing is silly.
As human beings, sometimes we forget just how complex we are. Things that seem really simply to us are actually insanely complicated mathematical operations. When I tell my friend by the fridge to get me a beer while he's there, he'll just do it. A computer on the other hand needs to be told how to do every tiny little step we take for granted. How to look at the door. How to judge the distance. How to calculate the desired angles of your shoulder & elbow joints to reach the door handle. How to manipulate the individual muscles so that your fingers gently touch upon the handle without punching it instead...

Really, a computer programmer is nothing more than an patient parent slowly repeating instructions to their toddler. "Walk to the remote. Pick up the remote. Come to me. Good boy! Give me the remote.
Very good!"

EDIT: As for actual languages for learning general coding, Python is excellent. Lua is ridiculously awesome too. Javascript (& DHTML) are fairly easy to easy to work out, if you're trying to make something web-based.

Java (completely unrelated to Javascript) & C++ are the most commonly used languages in standalone commercial applications, and frankly I recommend you avoid both for now. While they certainly have their strengths, neither are particularly good at letting you just sit down and immediately make stuff start happening.

EDIT2: And if you are trying to write an actual game in Java... Then you need help. The kind given by those nice men trying to put a white jacket on you. Java lends itself extremely well to corporate-friendly team based desktop application programming. Yes you can write games in it... But why on Earth would you?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Where did you guys start? C++
PostPosted: Mon 28 Feb, 2011 1:57 pm 
Offline
Scout

Joined: Sat 26 Feb, 2011 1:59 am
Posts: 34
Thank you both, Rokiyo and Colin. I appreciate the time you two took to show me both your views and opinions on were to start and the pros and cons of C++ and Python. I did start with Visual Studio because I thought that, that was the best way to start. I know a very limited amount or coding, mostly the very basic but it was enough to see what it was about. I just hope that setting up Python will be easier then VS with Allegro.

I know very little if nothing of LUA except that Ive seen it in games like World of Warcraft and that most of the mods in that game use it. Compared to Python, If I wore to start with one, can you please tell me, on a self thought bases which one will help me the most in understanding the mechanics and the know how of coding a game.

EDIT: I don't believe Ive ever thought about using JAVA Ive seen it in web games, so maybe that's why.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Where did you guys start? C++
PostPosted: Mon 28 Feb, 2011 2:02 pm 
Offline
Gopher
User avatar

Joined: Fri 25 Feb, 2011 9:52 pm
Posts: 79
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Rokiyo wrote:
And if you are trying to write an actual game in Java... Then you need help. The kind given by those nice men trying to put a white jacket on you. Java lends itself extremely well to corporate-friendly team based desktop application programming. Yes you can write games in it... But why on Earth would you?


I keep wondering that while playing Minecraft... :) I wonder if it will bite them in the arse later...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Where did you guys start? C++
PostPosted: Mon 28 Feb, 2011 2:35 pm 
Offline
Grasshopper
User avatar

Joined: Sat 26 Feb, 2011 4:10 am
Posts: 72
SpaceCookie wrote:
I know very little if nothing of LUA except that Ive seen it in games like World of Warcraft and that most of the mods in that game use it. Compared to Python, If I wore to start with one, can you please tell me, on a self thought bases which one will help me the most in understanding the mechanics and the know how of coding a game.
Lua is simple yet powerful. It has very few tools, but each of those tools do A LOT. It is also extremely fast. It is very good for for defining "game logic" (ie that stuff that isn't rendering engine code). WoW mods are a great example because they do a lot of logical processing but at the end of the day they are receiving events from and making method calls to the C++ game engine... And that really sums up Lua is about: It's absolutely brilliant as part of something bigger, but it's not so good on its own.

Python is far more... Uh... Well-rounded. You can write stuff entirely in Python and it'll work quite well. It isn't as blissfully simple as Lua, but it is extremely well supported by the dev community. Just about anything you could want to do already exists in some library form that you can manipulate to your own needs, and there is no shortage of written and video tutorials out there for it.

SpaceCookie wrote:
EDIT: I don't believe Ive ever thought about using JAVA Ive seen it in web games, so maybe that's why.
I'd imagine what you probably saw was Flash embedded into some HTML controlled by Javascript, and none of that has anything at all to do with Java. The similarity between Javascript and Java stops at the name.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Where did you guys start? C++
PostPosted: Tue 01 Mar, 2011 12:06 am 
Offline
Clockwork Personnel
User avatar

Joined: Fri 25 Feb, 2011 7:58 pm
Posts: 432
Location: London, GB
Would be interesting to hear updates from your progress Cookie - even if its not top spec, posting some clippings of code or projects might be a good experience

_________________
Here to help
Useful Topics:
The Rules (Updates Frequently)
Bug Submission
Known Bugs (Needs updating)
more as they appear...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Where did you guys start? C++
PostPosted: Tue 01 Mar, 2011 12:38 am 
Offline
Scout

Joined: Sat 26 Feb, 2011 1:59 am
Posts: 34
I went with Python and looked fore a lot of tutorials on how to use it, it's quite different from Visual Studio so its getting used to it a bit, however the tutorials I found using google are outdated. For example when I'm following along I just have to remember that

print "Hello, World!"
wont work, I have to add brackets to the quotations. Uhh, that's it so far, I didn't look into it any further. Cant find anything up to date for tutorials.

EDIT: I dint see the Manual in the Python directory... Ill have to have a look at that.

EDIT: Trying to get this Pygame thing going, I installed it to the Python32 Directory but I get this...

Traceback (most recent call last):
File "<pyshell#0>", line 1, in <module>
import pygame
File "C:\Python32\lib\site-packages\pygame\__init__.py", line 95, in <module>
from pygame.base import *
ImportError: DLL load failed: %1 is not a valid Win32 application.

I'm using the new Python 3.2,

import pygame
print dir(pygame)
print dir()

Gives a "dir" error. Already not feeling the love.

Go into LectureOne and find << Installing your python programming environment.
EDIT: LectureOne << http://rene.f0o.com/mywiki/PythonGameProgramming


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Where did you guys start? C++
PostPosted: Tue 22 Mar, 2011 4:56 am 
Offline
Clockwork Personnel
User avatar

Joined: Fri 25 Feb, 2011 7:58 pm
Posts: 432
Location: London, GB
Hows it coming along? Any progress thus far with your new programming hobby?! :D

_________________
Here to help
Useful Topics:
The Rules (Updates Frequently)
Bug Submission
Known Bugs (Needs updating)
more as they appear...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Where did you guys start? C++
PostPosted: Fri 08 Apr, 2011 12:22 pm 
Offline
Dart

Joined: Fri 25 Mar, 2011 1:07 pm
Posts: 10
I have also very very recently looked at learning a programming language. I am as noobie as it comes to such things so after reading a few comments here I went with Python. A lot of people said its a nice one to start off with and upto now, I'd agree. I bought a book from amazon aimed at the absolute beginner so just reading through that casually in my free time.

I would agree though that actually getting around to compiling or simply trying out large programs/games other people have made can be a little confusing. I'll just chip at it slowly and see where I end up. Definatly a friendly enough language to kick start from though imo.

As a side note I had trouble from the beginning regarding the syntax changes from Python 2 to 3 and getting errors when trying to run the code...Little frustrating but Python 3 seems to be well supported by the communty.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Where did you guys start? C++
PostPosted: Sat 09 Apr, 2011 5:19 am 
Offline
Clockwork Personnel
User avatar

Joined: Fri 25 Feb, 2011 7:58 pm
Posts: 432
Location: London, GB
Thats the key to python being a big hit as a starter language, the community support is outrageously good and you don't have the hassle of lower-level programs hanging over you. Over time you should branch off to a low level procedural or object orientated route. But this of course is up to you!

I am really glad that this topic has made on lookers think twice about it as a hobby and maybe one day you'll be the guys ripping your hair out for money!

_________________
Here to help
Useful Topics:
The Rules (Updates Frequently)
Bug Submission
Known Bugs (Needs updating)
more as they appear...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Where did you guys start? C++
PostPosted: Sat 09 Apr, 2011 5:23 am 
Offline
Clockwork Personnel
User avatar

Joined: Fri 25 Feb, 2011 7:58 pm
Posts: 432
Location: London, GB
AnubisNL wrote:
Rokiyo wrote:
And if you are trying to write an actual game in Java... Then you need help. The kind given by those nice men trying to put a white jacket on you. Java lends itself extremely well to corporate-friendly team based desktop application programming. Yes you can write games in it... But why on Earth would you?


I keep wondering that while playing Minecraft... :) I wonder if it will bite them in the arse later...


HAD TO DOUBLE POST!

Did you play (was it the previous) version of Minecraft? Lag to hell, memory leak to high heavens and poor segment rendering/ randomization! It bit him in the arse but he's recovering slowly.

_________________
Here to help
Useful Topics:
The Rules (Updates Frequently)
Bug Submission
Known Bugs (Needs updating)
more as they appear...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Where did you guys start? C++
PostPosted: Sat 09 Apr, 2011 8:02 am 
Offline
Clockwork Personnel
User avatar

Joined: Sat 26 Feb, 2011 12:12 am
Posts: 584
Java is a viable language to develop on. Good examples of what you can do, for example is Wakfu. http://www.wakfu.com/en
Mine craft, could have done better on it's back end. Tho that's an on going process obviously. It's just recently made it to beta. Ya, in alpha. Well, I'm glad I skipped that phase of it's life :D

Personally, I use C, Asm86, TCL, Python, and a few others on a regular basis. Have picked up many over the years.
Anyway, for fun, A rant about C++. http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.vers ... ocus=57918
Can't forget this either tho :3 The C++ Map: http://img-fotki.yandex.ru.nyud.net:808 ... 3e192_orig

And, from meh bot.

Java: "An overly-verbose, partially object-oriented language, which features wonderful over-engineering and amazing platform-independence (so long as the platform has a Java port, and it's the right version) http://openbookproject.net/thinkcs/java.php | http://www.mindviewinc.com/Books/ || ASK HERE: ##java"

Python: "A useful and powerful language, with lambda functions, lazy list evaluation, and a C interface, as well as clean syntax (mostly ;) | http://www.python.org/doc/current/modindex.html "dynamic, object-oriented..strong integration .. extensive libraries, can be learned in a few days." What more do you want? Bleh: http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/3882 | http://diveintopython.org/toc/index.html"

C: "Start here: http://publications.gbdirect.co.uk/c_book/ |*BUY* "The C Programming Language" Kernighan & Ritchie (2nd ed, Prentice-Hall)| http://c-faq.com/index.html |Lib: http://www.acm.uiuc.edu/webmonkeys/book/c_guide/ |Std: http://anubis.dkuug.dk/JTC1/SC22/WG14/www/projects See !posix and /join ##c [ /ignore Zhivago ;] http://www.iso-9899.info/wiki/C_gotchas | http://www.iso-9899.info/wiki/Snippets"

TCL: "Tool Command Language A very useful addition to your code arsenal. http://tcl.sourceforge.net/faqs/tcl/ | http://wiki.tcl.tk/ |> #tcl <| http://www.linuxformat.co.uk/pdfs/LXF87.feat_tcl.pdf is a gentle tutorial for people who've never coded ;)"
For reference, the channels are on irc.freenode.net

_________________
"It works cause I stand next to it radiating science and wonder."
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Where did you guys start? C++
PostPosted: Mon 16 May, 2011 12:40 am 
Offline
Gyro
User avatar

Joined: Fri 25 Feb, 2011 8:09 pm
Posts: 143
One strong suggestion. Learn a strongly typed language. Seriously. While it's painful at times, strong typing lets the compilier catch errors you make in your code. This helps you learn better habits and will save you a ton of grief in mono-typed languages like python.

Yes, I called it mono-typed not "dynamically typed".


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Where did you guys start? C++
PostPosted: Mon 23 May, 2011 8:41 am 
Offline
Scout

Joined: Tue 17 May, 2011 6:33 am
Posts: 35
Location: Estonia
SpaceCookie wrote:
I already tried following a tut on youtube, which suggested to use "Allegro" http://www.allegro.cc/, however that was a bite in the arse because no useful instructions wore up on how to set it up
Allegro should be pretty decent. I used it from around 4.0-4.20-something versions over several years and created this little toy :) It was a slooow progression, mostly because it was one of the very first things I had written that were over a couple thousand lines and it started third-ever C++ application, including "hello world" :) My suggestion is to take a look at http://www.allegro.cc/ That community is pure awesomeness for starting game development.

_________________
"Teach a man to reason and he'll think for a lifetime"
- Phil Plait


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Where did you guys start? C++
PostPosted: Fri 10 Jun, 2011 6:55 pm 
Offline
Shortbus

Joined: Mon 16 May, 2011 4:57 pm
Posts: 5
While I don't code for games stuff im doing things to help myself in programs, extra tools and such. I'm using VB for this but once you start learning 1 language and see how it works, its a little easier to get onto other languages since you know how the flow of things go.

Wish you luck.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Where did you guys start? C++
PostPosted: Tue 14 Jun, 2011 8:37 am 
Offline
Dart

Joined: Wed 08 Jun, 2011 5:25 am
Posts: 24
Interesting reading this thread. Part of me has always wanted to use my programming skills to work my own game...but to be honest I don't really know where to 'start' in that aspect.

I do a lot of coding in VB with some javascript for a web application at a company I work for. Also work the PL/SQL, but that's more logic that sits on the database itself.

So the question I have...is once you know the fundamentals of using languages, where do you start from there? I've only ever exposed myself to building the code behind for web applications.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Where did you guys start? C++
PostPosted: Mon 27 Jun, 2011 10:45 am 
Offline
Clockwork Personnel
User avatar

Joined: Fri 25 Feb, 2011 7:58 pm
Posts: 432
Location: London, GB
Xylan wrote:
Interesting reading this thread. Part of me has always wanted to use my programming skills to work my own game...but to be honest I don't really know where to 'start' in that aspect.

I do a lot of coding in VB with some javascript for a web application at a company I work for. Also work the PL/SQL, but that's more logic that sits on the database itself.

So the question I have...is once you know the fundamentals of using languages, where do you start from there? I've only ever exposed myself to building the code behind for web applications.


Well in my opinion ( this may vary person-to-person ) is that once you know the fundamentals of using languages, the rest of the work, especially if you're geared toward creating a game, is not only learning the libraries ( or using a cheat sheet ), but instead investing time in other aspects of your knowledge that is applicable. Namely, the first thing I would suggest you study before delving into a game would be creative writing, followed by physics, no matter how simple; following this you can go into specific areas.

Once you have a handle on "how things work" in your world and you're capable of creating it imaginatively, your game will flow easier. Coding is only a small part of the battle with game development.

As a side note: To ease the stress off of you, you may wish to chose a easy engine to develop on, which can change depending on your desired game type. XNA is a popular one amongst myself and a few others at the moment, and can be seen in action in such games titled Terraria and Magicka.

I would like to convince you that this easy C# (similar to java) engine is capable of completing a functioning title worthy of quite a bit of money in just a couple months. My example is Terraria where the development to release stage was beginning to end in only 3-4 months.

If you do start developing a game, do keep us posted. :)

_________________
Here to help
Useful Topics:
The Rules (Updates Frequently)
Bug Submission
Known Bugs (Needs updating)
more as they appear...


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Where did you guys start? C++
PostPosted: Thu 13 Oct, 2011 8:50 pm 
Offline
Shortbus

Joined: Thu 13 Oct, 2011 8:11 pm
Posts: 1
I very impressed SPAZ , see it today on stream .
If someone want teach some Java I cant help
(don’t , know how communicate ,in which program, but we find way)
Why Java ?
I Love IDE and debugger (eclipse) :), shi have some restriction against C++, but not critical.
If interesting what I do this http://www.java-gaming.org/index.php/topic,23947.0.html

The idea is to do Rpg from start of the ages and to space ships where , you can build space ship ,Build empire etc..
But now when I see SPAZ I what do something same, (space chapter of my game ;))


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 21 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group